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#182365 - 10/30/13 11:28 AM I need help
Dockside Offline
Bantam

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 12
A/S/L: 69/m/nj
I just started bowling again after about a 50 year hiatus. I stopped bowling when I was younger bc of tendonitis in the hand & wrist. I tried bowling again this past winter and the tendonitis flared up again and this is with a 10lb. ball. I had my ball converted to fingertip grips and to my surprise no tendonitis flare-up. So I'm thinking about moving up to a 14lb. ball. I don't know if my hand will be able to handle it though. In the meantime I developed soreness in my forearm & elbow which is probably tendonitis also. It doesn't bother me too much bowling but really hurts when I play golf. Anyway, I need help. I'm throwing a hook. I'm using an ebonite cyclone ball. I had an extra hole drilled in it to take some of the hook off it bc it was breaking way too much for me to handle. In the first video I'm throwing a hook at a spare. I usually don't throw a hook at the spares but at my friend's suggestion I tried it but I prefer to throw straight at spares. The ball breaks slightly. I really need a lot of help with set-up, timing, release, etc. any critique will be greatly appreciated.








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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#182371 - 10/30/13 12:14 PM Re: I need help [Re: Dockside]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2127
A/S/L: 30/M/AZ
Welcome to the forum, and welcome back to the game of bowling.

This first thing to discuss is the pain you're feeling. A lot of new bowlers tend to squeeze the ball with a white knuckle grip. This will very quickly lead to pain and even injury. Make sure you have a good fit on the ball (use bowler's tape snug up the thumb hole) and teach yourself not to squeeze it. The old adage I've heard is to imagine you're holding a baby; firm enough to keep it supported, but not firm enough to make it uncomfortable or to hurt it. If you can learn to do that, the bowling related pain should go away, and you should be able to handle 14 pounds.

As for your approach, I'd honestly say its not bad. The first two things that stand out to me are 1) your pushaway is a little late (the ball should already be headed downward into the backswing by the time your first step hit the floor) and 2) you don't slide. The slide would be the first thing I would work on because it will help save your joints, will give you a much smoother approach, and will help your balance at the foul line which is one of the first keys of the fundamentals.

Keep at it, and ask all the questions you can while you're here.

_________________________
Career Highs: 300/759

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#182379 - 10/30/13 01:34 PM Re: I need help [Re: Dockside]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
Ok, to begin with, when taking video with a modern cell phone or the like:

Yes!




No!


Ok, that out of the way... right now it looks like you are releasing the ball with your hand all the way on top of the ball.


This is an issue I battle all the time, to a lesser extent. I think it's partly due to your late timing at the line, also could be you're just trying to get the ball to hook the way your brain tells you that you should. So we need to stop your arm from turning "in" during your backswing. Think of the wide part of your forearm, down your arm from the crook of your elbow (or your palm if it's easier to visualize), as the club face of a golf club. Would a golf club work well if the face of the club was sideways when it hit the ball? The thing you're doing now, it's not so much that it makes your ball hook "a lot", more just "early".

I also think part of the issue is, your arm turns in when it swings around your right leg/hip in the downswing. If you can bend at the knees a LITTLE more, tilt your shoulders/upper body to the right some and clear your right leg to the left at the line, it will help prevent this.

Pretty much none of us will ever bowl like Tommy Jones, but look how he does it. Upper body is tilted to the right, right leg is way cleared to the left. He is free to bring his arm straight down in the downswing, with the ball very close to his ankle.



You don't need to do what Tommy does (thank goodness) but it's exaggerated in his game and illustrates my point well.

What's that team sport everybody watches on Sunday? Football. Foot-ball. The foot gets to the line, then the ball. Not Ball-foot, not Foot.........ball. Timing in life, and bowling, is pretty much everything.

There are other coaches who will hopefully chime in but at least some stuff to think about.


Edited by RickSchott (10/30/13 01:44 PM)
_________________________
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#182385 - 10/30/13 08:10 PM Re: I need help [Re: champ]
Dockside Offline
Bantam

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 12
A/S/L: 69/m/nj
Thanks for the quick reply. As far as the slide, I find it difficult to slide. I'll have to work on that. I was bowling today and a young fellow was observing me and offered the same advice. He said my hand was coming over the top and I was late with my timing. He said when my left foot takes its last step my hand should be by my ankle. I'm not sure how to correct that though.

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#182386 - 10/30/13 08:31 PM Re: I need help [Re: 56bird]
Dockside Offline
Bantam

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 12
A/S/L: 69/m/nj
Thanks for the advice. I took a few lessons this past winter when I was in Florida and the instructor had me hold the ball the way you see in the video. That's probably why I pull the ball to the left at times. I understand what you are saying and will work on it.

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#182446 - 11/01/13 08:18 PM Re: I need help [Re: Dockside]
spr3wr Offline
USBC Bronze Level Coach

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 555
A/S/L: 54/m/MICHIGAN
1st of all you DON'T have late timing.Your pushaway moves forward on your 1st step and is behind your right leg at the end of your 2nd step. So your doing great there. The turning of the thumb towards the body during the backswing again is OK! Why is it OK? Because at the top of your swing your hand is on top of the ball not on the side. So even on your 3rd step your still perfect.
The problem is you have little or no slide combined with little or no knee bend.If you could bend your knee a little more not a lot (were not in our twenty's any more). Or take a little longer last step not too long (you know why) make it about a foot longer. If you can do one or the other it will help, if you can do both that will be great. If you have knee problems then don't worry about that.

Staying behind the ball is just keeping your thumb forward as you have it at the top of your swing. THUMBS UP at the release my friend or facing the the 7 pin will also work.

Work on 1 advice at a time, good luck.
_________________________
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High game 300 X 2
High series 810
Current ave. 213

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#182450 - 11/01/13 09:39 PM Re: I need help [Re: spr3wr]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
The timing IS late at the line. Body is stopped, foot is planted for quite a while before the ball comes by. You could say, by having no slide the approach "ends early", a different way of saying the same thing. DRIVING with the pivot step (third of the four step approach) to create some slide would keep the body and foot moving longer which in a sense would get you back in time, and would definitely allow more knee-bend and a better leverage position. This is why better bowling shoes have a rubber sole on the non-sliding shoe, which provides traction to help you DRIVE with your pivot step. A bowler can be early or on-time at one point of the approach and late at the other, this is common.

Definitely work on getting the hand more behind the ball at the point of release.
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#182506 - 11/03/13 02:45 PM Re: I need help [Re: 56bird]
Dockside Offline
Bantam

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 12
A/S/L: 69/m/nj
Here r some videos of a practice today. I tried to keep my hand under the ball as suggested and I tried to change the timing as suggested. Looking at the videos it doesn't look like I am bending too much but it feels like I am bending. Don't know if I can get much lower with these old knees. As far as slide, that is something I will have to work on, although it May be the lanes. Not the best place around to bowl.









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#182507 - 11/03/13 02:57 PM Re: I need help [Re: Dockside]
Dockside Offline
Bantam

Registered: 10/29/13
Posts: 12
A/S/L: 69/m/nj
I am also throwing the ball out to the right a lot. Is that a set-up problem or something else?

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#182517 - 11/03/13 11:17 PM Re: I need help [Re: Dockside]
djp1080 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 432
A/S/L: 71/m/IL
Dock, I, too, took many years away from bowling. Got back into it about 3 years ago. The picture of Tommy Jones is an excellent one, but kind of tough on us old guys; however, you start your approach with your ball pretty much in the middle of your body. Then you go into your swing and have to move it around your torso for the backswing. Then you bring back around yourself.
What you should try to attempt is a simple pendulum swing. Your body should not be in the way of the swing which will give you much more consistency. Another thing is you tend to move away from your landing after you release the ball. Try to keep from moving away from where you end up so that you can check your end point of your slide shoe each time. If you can improve your pendulum swing and monitor your walking position, accuracy will improve greatly.
These are two things that are basics that any bowling coach will hit on right away.
Best of luck...

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