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#182344 - 10/29/13 03:11 PM Stupid League Rule(s)
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
I was not able to attend my "fun" league's initial meeting, and the rules were not printed and distributed until the 7th week. In the meantime, I was paired up with a married couple new to league bowling. My wife was not able to bowl, so my 4-person team started the league season with a vacancy.

Around the 5th week, my team had a good night and we left thinking we won 5 of 7 points according to the computer and score sheet. When the league results were posted, we won 0 points. This was the first time we noticed any discrepancy. I thought maybe there was an error and investigated the issue with the league secretary. He said the league's vacancy score is 145 plus 20 pins handicap, or a total of 165 pins. The problem with that is actual bowlers get 100% of 200 handicap, or a total of 200 pins. That's a deficit of 35 pins per game, requiring each of the players on a team with a vacancy to bowl an additional 11+ pins over their average each game. The secretary apologized that the computer and score sheets automatically give the vacant score 145 plus 55 pins, the same as an actual bowler.

It all seemed a little shady to me, not publishing the rules, and changing the scores after they are entered into the computer. Neither the bowling center nor the league seemed to be doing anything to encourage new bowlers to join the league. There were two other teams with vacancies, all at the bottom of the standings, so I suggested the vacancy rule be discussed at a league meeting. For two weeks, the secretary objected, saying the entire league would have to vote. I finally had to provide him with links to the USBC playing rules which stated only the team captains would have to vote. Embarrassed, he scheduled a meeting.

At the meeting, I suggested that the vacancy score be updated to 145 plus 45 pins, for a total of 190. That would be the same as an actual bowler's absent score (i.e. minus 10 pins). The rule change would not be retroactive, but from that point forward. The sad ending to this story is that the league voted 12 to 8 to keep the rule as is. The way I see it, the established teams voted to screw the new teams rather than give them a fair chance to win. That is not the spirit of friendly competition that I like to see in a fun league. And, it is not an encouragement for new bowlers to join the league. The same is true of the 100% of 200 handicap rule. There is one team with three 220 average bowlers cleaning up. Stupid league rules.
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USBC (2008-2016):
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#182345 - 10/29/13 04:09 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2144
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
The way I see it, the established teams voted to screw the new teams rather than give them a fair chance to win. That is not the spirit of friendly competition that I like to see in a fun league.


The most fun leagues I've ever bowled in were mixed leagues with no prize fund. You got trophies and a banquet at the end, or a free bowling ball, or pizza and beer every night, etc. If the "big boys" in the league want to play for money they set up some pots and brackets on the side, but it isn't the official reason for being there. Those are the league I search out when I want a fun league.

You'd think all non-money leagues would be friendly and fun, but they're often pretty ugly. People want to act like they're competitive, and they want to act like they're bowling for real money, so they're will to screw over other people for a shot at an extra hundred bucks at the end.
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#182359 - 10/30/13 01:10 AM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
rrb6699 (RayRay) Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 513
A/S/L: Single/male/FL
they probably just want their cozy little gathering to bowl each week and the new teams are just 'getting in the way'. quitting will make them look bad to the center and reduce their 'guaranteed' lineage to the house.

rr
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#182372 - 10/30/13 12:16 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: rrb6699 (RayRay)]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
100% of 200 is garbage even when it has made me money in the past.

Such a penalty for an absence or vacancy on a team, damn that's harsh.
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#182380 - 10/30/13 02:57 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1162
A/S/L: 53/M/Virginia Beach, VA
You said it yourself, though. Fun league. Shouldn't be getting too upset with the rules in this league. The center may put a board at the counter showing the openings in each league, but ultimately it's up to you to find a 4th. Of course the league isn't going to vote in a rule change that helps 2-3 teams, especially when they're at the bottom. If you were one of the teams with a full lineup, I doubt you'd vote for that change.
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#182382 - 10/30/13 03:30 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
I guess I should clarify. For me, it's a "fun" mixed league, a chance to get some practice on a Saturday night. But, for lots of teams, you would think it's a life and death struggle, with the mortgage money on the line. In truth, there is about $50 difference per bowler in the prize fund from 1st to last place. That's not enough for me to get too excited. But, I guess it's enough to make some people crazy.

I am told the stupidest part about the 100% of 200 average rule is when it was originally voted in, the lower average bowlers were persuaded it was to their advantage because bowlers over 200 would not get any handicap pins. brickwall

My team actually filled our vacancy a few weeks before the league meeting. We proceeded at my request because I could see the vacancy rule had left a bad taste for my new-to-league-bowling teammates, and there was still one new team left with a vacancy. I presented the case, and voted as captain of my team to have it changed even though it would not help my team since it would not be retroactive and would have no effect on the current league standings.

I just don't see any reason teams with a vacancy should be penalized any more than teams with an absent bowler (minus 10 pins). The team with a vacancy still has to contribute the same amount to the prize fund as a full team. That's enough of an incentive to find another teammate. As ambassadors for the sport of bowling, I feel that we need to encourage new bowlers to join leagues even if they don't have a full team. Bowling centers should be motivated to fill the vacant slots because they are the ones losing the lineage.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#182384 - 10/30/13 06:20 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
rrb6699 (RayRay) Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 513
A/S/L: Single/male/FL
start some high game lots or brackets. thats fun.

btw. do you bowl at Fair Lanes Shady Grove?

let me know.

rr

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#182391 - 10/30/13 10:47 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Joe Bowler]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Leagues, League Secreatarys and their rules are the first line of bowling. One of the reason I think many new bowlers do not return to sanctioned bowling is because many of these leagues are little dictatorships. The President doesn't do his/her job to reign in the Sec/Tres and he/she then takes over. If they are good at their job then the league thrives, but if they aren't they have a revolving door of bowlers. New bowlers do not understand to much about handicapped league bowling. If they are not made welcome and taught how league bowling works in a fair and equitable way then they don't come back. USBC can say all they way about why they think league bowlers are leaving but IMO, a lot of it has to do with the league secretaries. At the local level we can't really nit pick on all the issues these secretaries do incorrectly. I'm still putting in sanctions that are over a month old, secretary just now turning it in, along with the bowlers' memberships and checks. Averages are not turned in, I have to pry those out of the secretaries. There's just not a line out there of people waiting to be good competant secretaries that we can go through the removal process for the really bad ones. Most times they are all just bending the rules, barely breaking rules and have a strong following amongst their group of bowlers. You remove all these secretaries and you are going to lose more bowlers and more leagues. All I can do is try to get the secrearies to be more welcoming to newbies but these problem secretaries area also the ones that don't attend meetings etc....... Its very tough. I know there are bad secretaries out there with swful league rules but ...........

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#182393 - 10/30/13 11:17 PM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: Atochabsh]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
If it were my league, I'd definitely vote for average minus 10 pins plus handicap for an absentee bowler. Since it has that awful 100% of 200 rule, I'd call any absent bowler with a 200+ average a flat 190 too. Doesn't matter if I have a full team or if I'm top or bottom in standings.
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#182399 - 10/31/13 05:57 AM Re: Stupid League Rule(s) [Re: rrb6699 (RayRay)]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: rrb6699 (RayRay)
btw. do you bowl at Fair Lanes Shady Grove? let me know.

No, I don't bowl there. It hasn't been called Fair Lanes Shady Grove in a while. It's more of a sports bar/night club now than a bowling center. It went through a major renovation several years ago and became the 300 Club Shady Grove. When they re-opened the doors, there were no more leagues, only parties and open bowling ($8-$9 per game). It's now called Bowlmor Rockville.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
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