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#181275 - 09/14/13 09:53 PM Ideas for better pin carry
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2144
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
I need to get some ideas from the higher average bowlers around here as to how to create pin carry. I've gotten to the point where I'm a solid 200+ average, but that has its limitations; when everything is just right I have the skill to score pretty well. But when all the stars aren't aligned, I'm grinding out 570-600. I can get lined up, hit the pocket a high percentage of times, and am a good spare shooter (I'm not the sort to shoot 200 by shooting four baggers followed by two opens.) I'm the sort to have a strike, 4 pin, 10 pin, 10 pin, 9 pin, strike and think to myself "well you're throwing it well so keep making making micro adjustments and eventually you'll double."

I want to continue to improve and a pattern I'm noticing is that in a given night I'll have one game of good carry with two other games of hitting the pocket and leaving a variety of junk.

I'm not a whiner. I know there's a reason for every leave. I want to get some ideas on how you guys quickly notice the signs that carry is starting to go bad and secondly, what are your bread and butter adjustments to get all ten to fall?

I want to get to the point where bad nights are 600s and average nights are 650-670. You can't do that shooting at single pin spares two of three games.
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#181288 - 09/15/13 09:45 AM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
This is just one situation, but when I have good carry the first game and it goes away, I'm moving inside and *sometimes* balling up, or staying put(ish) and balling down.

Which one I go with has more to do with who I'm bowling with and against. Mainly I'm looking to preserve energy for the back end, a weaker cover can help, higher RG core can help, or just chasing the oil in can help. Thing is, if you don't have a ton of hand (like me), you may need to ball UP when you move inside so the ball can make the corner and drive hard. It wasn't unusual at all last season for me to start playing down the boards at first with my Berserk, and moving inside with my Mission as they broke down.

Comparing two similar bowling balls in my arsenal, the low RG Mass Eruption tends to read the mids and may run out of gas when not enough head oil is seen, the higher RG Berserk tends to ignore the heads and much of the mids(with same surface on each). I have a choice to maintain carry, move left with the Mass Eruption or stay put and go to the Berserk.

Check out Sk8's Language of the Pins videos...

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#181293 - 09/15/13 04:19 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
vgnano420 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 25/m/mi
I was hoping this topic would of had more feedback because I am at the same point as champ, although my spare game isn't that good.
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#181298 - 09/15/13 05:48 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
This is an oversimplification of a complex topic. But, if you are stuck in 4-pin/10-pin jail (right-hander), chances are either your ball or your target line is not generating enough entry angle. The solution is often to take a shinier (later, more angular) ball and move further outside. Keep moving feet and target outside until you start leaving 8 and 9 pins, then back off.

If you have already done that, chances are that may be the best the pattern has to offer. Carrydown can have that effect where it just robs you of strikes on your good hits. But, before settling in to grind it out, take a look around and see if anybody has a better ball reaction, and what they are doing differently.
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#181301 - 09/15/13 06:26 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
If all else fails also try light hits.
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#181310 - 09/15/13 09:51 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: VFF57]
Gohokies Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 50/male/Arlington, Va
Joe I wished I had read your post before league tonight. Left 11 ten pins. That's a career high and one I am not proud of. I used like 4 different lines and did switch to my shiny ball the shatter but after two shots with it that left the ten pin I went back to the other ball. Funny thing is now that I read your post I should have stayed with it and moved right before I gave up on it. I used my iq pearl most of the night played straight up the boards a mid hook and a big hook and still 10 pins. Put 30 of 34 shots in the pocket and only shot 580. I would think I made a good move get two in a row then get back to back ten pins. I guess I should focus on the positive I hit the pocket every shot, but I think if I adjusted better it would have been a 650 easy. Help.

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#181312 - 09/15/13 11:10 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: Gohokies]
JW123 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 438
A/S/L: 45/M/NJ
Originally Posted By: Gohokies
Joe I wished I had read your post before league tonight. Left 11 ten pins. That's a career high and one I am not proud of. I used like 4 different lines and did switch to my shiny ball the shatter but after two shots with it that left the ten pin I went back to the other ball. Funny thing is now that I read your post I should have stayed with it and moved right before I gave up on it. I used my iq pearl most of the night played straight up the boards a mid hook and a big hook and still 10 pins. Put 30 of 34 shots in the pocket and only shot 580. I would think I made a good move get two in a row then get back to back ten pins. I guess I should focus on the positive I hit the pocket every shot, but I think if I adjusted better it would have been a 650 easy. Help.


11 in a series is a little ridiculous. Did it happen more often (like 9 times) on one lane or was it a 6-5 thing? If it was happening more on one lane, were you looking carefully at the rack before you bowled? If the 3 pin is 1/4" off spot, you're going to leave the 10 pin on the best of hits, and the best adjustment is not a ball change or a line change, but a re-rack!
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#181315 - 09/15/13 11:24 PM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: JW123]
Gohokies Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 239
A/S/L: 50/male/Arlington, Va
It was pretty even between the lanes. A teammate shot 721 but he is left handed and me right handed. First game I only had 174. 4 strikes and 5 ten pins. Missed two of them. Second game I had 227 and 7 strikes with 3 ten pins and a seven pin. Last games I had 180 with 3 more ten pins. Problem is I only made 6 of the 11 if I'd made 9 and shot 615 I wouldn't have been so frustrated. I normally make around 85% of my ten pins, I think my frustration was getting to my mental game and then I missed two in a row and that made it a crapshoot the rest of the night with my confidence on them. Thing is if I pulled it inside where the oil would hold it I would leave the ten. If I missed my target right and throw a bigger hook same result. I would think the entry angle would be different on those. Lol maybe the spot was off. If so could it be off to add carry which is why the lefty did so well. He is a good bowler so it wasn't an unusual night for him.

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#181320 - 09/16/13 08:52 AM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
I had a few nights last year that almost made me give up on bowling because of the bad pin carry insanity I was dealing with. Part of the problem was I had a sore rotator cuff and I was short-stroking the ball and not accelerating through my release. The lower speed and revs caused the ball to hit the pocket weak and deflect. The remaining cause was ball-lane matchup and bad luck with probability. This year my shoulder feels better and Iím able to stick the ball in the pocket with more authority which converts ringing tens into slow tens, etc..

In general, when I see my ball hook up a few feet from the pocket and roll through Iím almost guaranteed a strike. Thatís the ball reaction I strive to achieve each time. If itís still hooking through the pocket I move out more in the dry for an earlier roll and vice-versa.
_________________________
League:
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High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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#181327 - 09/16/13 11:42 AM Re: Ideas for better pin carry [Re: champ]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Champ,

When you are experiencing bad carry do you typically see the same sort of pins standing?

Is your "good carry" game normally in the same game (ie. third game)?

What equipment do you typically use in a standard league night?


We can figure out a good plan of attack I am sure!
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