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#177324 - 03/20/13 09:45 AM Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video
mattyg3535 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 121
A/S/L: 34/M/cocoa. Fl
Motiv Venom Toxin

Video for the Stone Street pattern can be seen @



Bowler: MattyG

Speed: around 15mph on the monitors
Rev Rate: 300+
Axis rotation: Med/Low
Axis tilt: Med/high
PAP: 4 1/2" right and 1/8 up

Layout: 70* X 5" X 45*

Surface: OOB @ 2000 Polished

Lane type: Brunswick and AMF

Oil pattern: Kegel Stone Street(43'), 2013 Nationals Team Pattern (40)
and 38' THS (AMF)

Review: Motiv's latest Hybrid entry is a much needed addition to their mid line performance equipment. I based my drilling layout on the performance of my Venom Strike. I received the VENOM with a 2" pin to CG. I naturally drilled it "pin under". I got more than I bargained for! The Venom Strike would actually roll out on THS fresh oil due to how strong the cover and core combo. The drilling did not help. I wind up using the Venom Strike on sport shots, such as Shark, because of it's ability to roll through anything despite it's "med/light oil" label. With the Venom TOXIN I requested a longer pin to CG in hopes of doing a weaker drilling so I could use it more on THS conditions. The Hybrid cover makes the Toxin clear the fronts where the Strike would not. The 5" x 45* drilling made sure it did not roll out. Overall I got a much smoother move off the dry without the loss of power through the pins. It seems as of late I was getting either extreme roll or extreme skid/flip from Motiv. This ball was exactly what the doctor ordered. On fresh I could play right and dryer conditions I wasn't forced in front of the ball return. Due to the Hybrid cover I am sure I could tweak the surface to get better reactions on different conditions but as of now the 2000 polished OOB surface is great.

Experience on 43' fresh pattern (Stone Street): This pattern is what I try to use in all my videos. It is not an easy THS but it is not the most difficult either. I was very limited in the zone I could play because of how "clean" the cover was and the overall length of the pattern. I got so much more length than the Venom Strike. I had to be more precise with speed and rotation or the ball was behind the headpin. Defiantly not a big monster ball! Would NOT be my first ball out the bag on this shot if I had to choose. Those with a bit more hand might disagree though. I could have knocked the polish off and got a better reaction but I wanted to keep it "box" for testing.

Experience on THS (38'): This is my "Giant Wall" that I get to bowl on in league. It drives me nuts because no good shot goes REWARDED. Everything is over/under and no one who has more than a 200 rev rate can stay in one zone too long with out things going wrong. I usually can only use something like my Thrash Frenzy drilled very weak. The Venom STRIKE rolls out about a foot past the arrows or I have to play 25 at the arrows to 12 at the break point with every drop of speed I got. Not my cup of tea. The Venom Toxin gave me the ability to stay in the "Track area" all nigh with very little adjustment to keep it striking. The entry angle was not as good as the Thrash Frenzy but it was much easier not to leave a split when I missed a board or 2. I was able to stay out of trouble and score well when everyone around me was scratching their heads.

Experience on 2013 Nationals Team Oil Pattern: First let me say that the bowling center does an amazing job at replication oil conditions for Nationals. About as close as your going to get without actually being there. The key to this pattern is to play as close to the O.B. on the right as you can, for as long as you can. Due to the volume difference between Stone Street and the Nationals pattern I though I was going to be in trouble… I wasn't. This ball moved so well off the spot. I think it was the fact that the pattern was 3' shorter. For whatever reason, this ball was amazing. A miss inside and it still held, while a board into the O.B. seemed not to matter either. As the patten broke down I was able to just make 1 and 1 moves left and the reaction held. Shot a little over 700 with no warm-up. Played 7 @ the arrows to 5 @ the breakpoint to start. I would highly recommend getting one of these if you are heading out this year. With the new conditions this year, this is what it will take to score!!

Conclusion: I really see the need for the Toxin in the line-up. In my opinion I would place this ball above the Thrash Frenzy not below it, on the Motiv Ball reaction chart. It is stronger due to the core shape, regardless of the flare potential. The color is not as vibrant as the pictures look on-line but it is still gets people starring at it on the ball return.
Lower rev player might want to drill this ball with a bit shorter pin to see the best reaction.
Tweeners are free to make the pin to pap distance dictate how that want the ball to read, either early or later.
Crankers will love this ball with a longer pin.
Still not crazy about the synonyms for names, but whatever.

MattyG
BowlerX staff member
www.bowlerx.com



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#177328 - 03/20/13 10:43 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: mattyg3535]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
I had a Venom Strike. With its low RG, low Diff core, I found it best suited for short patterns and outside angles. However, the strong, solid cover seemed counter intuitive for that kind of shot. The core said move outside. But, the cover said move inside. I found myself forced to line up in between with an early, weak entry angle. So, I give it away.

I suspect the hybrid Venom Toxin would be a little cleaner through the heads on a shorter pattern, but not much since it is still a reactive resin ball. What I would really like to see from Motiv is the same core in a pearl urethane ball. In my opinion, that would be the best cover combination for the smooth, early rolling, arcing gear core. Both core and cover would say move outside. It would be a Cheetah and Viper killer, and I would be able to retire my Storm Natural Pearl, the only non-Motiv ball in my arsenal.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#177619 - 03/27/13 10:24 PM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: mattyg3535]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
OMG, ask and you shall receive. Introducing the Motiv Urethane Tank with the Gear core:
http://www.motivbowling.com/products/balls/tank.html
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#177620 - 03/27/13 10:55 PM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: mattyg3535]
champ Online   content
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2147
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
I saw this one yesterday, and immediately thought of you Joe. Though its not a pearl, maybe it will extend your Motiv arsenal even further.

That's quite a bit of money for a urethane ball though. Earlier in the season I picked up a never drilled Black Rhino from 1992 for 10 bucks. Shined up, its a great piece for the frequently scorched lanes here in Tucson. I was nervous it wouldn't have the hit since it a three piece, but i find it performs just fine.
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#177622 - 03/28/13 07:08 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: mattyg3535]
mattyg3535 Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 121
A/S/L: 34/M/cocoa. Fl
I have had some more games in now with the Toxin. I was using my Thrash Frenzy a lot! I have now replaced it with the Toxin. It is just smooth and controllable. Length is never an issue but if you use the right hand position it is easy enough to get that Gear core to roll up earlier. It is a really good addition to the arsenal because I can actually use it!
As far as that Tank goes. I am very excited. Not that I throw like Justin, but I can surly make a judgment on how a ball is going to roll based on how many videos I have seen of his. I think that the Tank will open up a whole new area of that lane for me. Can't wait to shoot the video for that one! Might have to come up with a new camera angle...

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#177624 - 03/28/13 08:21 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: mattyg3535]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
Originally Posted By: mattyg3535
I wind up using the Venom Strike on sport shots, such as Shark, because of it's ability to roll through anything despite it's "med/light oil" label.


I'm not surprised <cough, cough> (inside joke, never mind) whistle

Originally Posted By: mattyg3535
I am sure I could tweak the surface to get better reactions on different conditions but as of now the 2000 polished OOB surface is great.


JB mentioned this ball as a possible candidate as a low RG hybrid benchmark-type ball to compete with my higher RG hybrid. My first thought was "I'd knock the polish off it". I think I'd like a ball with a bit more diff but this ball does seem very close and I love the look (all of the Motiv stuff looks pretty cool these days).

As always, thanks for the great video. Not sure how the collective will feel about it but I dig the dubstep.
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#177626 - 03/28/13 08:37 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: Joe Bowler]
Kitten Latch Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 211
A/S/L: 19/M/Australia
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
OMG, ask and you shall receive. Introducing the Motiv Urethane Tank with the Gear core:
http://www.motivbowling.com/products/balls/tank.html


This will be in my arsenal if I can get one in Australia at the start of May. In my travelling league I'm about 50/50 using my plastic over reactive due to the ridiculous conditions they're putting down. Would be nice to have a dull urethane option in between the two.
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#177627 - 03/28/13 09:27 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: 56bird]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: RickSchott
Originally Posted By: mattyg3535
I wind up using the Venom Strike on sport shots, such as Shark, because of it's ability to roll through anything despite it's "med/light oil" label.


I'm not surprised <cough, cough> (inside joke, never mind) whistle

Hehe, inside joke received. But, here is the rub. In my opinion, the Venom Strike is a great example of a mismatched cover and core, and further illustrates my point concerning matching higher RG to longer patterns. Because of the surprisingly strong solid cover, bowlers might think to use it on longer, heavier oil. But, because of the low RG, low Diff core, it is not going to make the late, sharp turn required for optimal scoring. Sure, it will likely roll, but unless you are Pete Weber, it will be at a very weak entry angle.

I really love that Motiv is putting the Gear core in a urethane shell. I would pre-order it now if I could.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#177628 - 03/28/13 09:48 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: Joe Bowler]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
To fit in with my theory for long oil, the ball would want to have a little less cover and a little more diff (we agree on the diff for sure), my thought is that in Matty's case these cancel out and all is well (not that it would for everyone, necessarily). We've been down this road before though and know where it goes smile

I'm also pleased that Motiv is going to provide you a urethane option in their line (with a current core, too!). Will be interested to hear what you do with it in terms of layout too, being a urethane ball I'm not sure what your thoughts are...
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#177633 - 03/28/13 11:57 AM Re: Motiv Venom Toxin - Ball Review and Video [Re: 56bird]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: RickSchott
I'm also pleased that Motiv is going to provide you a urethane option in their line (with a current core, too!). Will be interested to hear what you do with it in terms of layout too, being a urethane ball I'm not sure what your thoughts are...

Rick, I created a separate thread for the Motiv Tank, and answered your question there. My apologies to MattyG and the Motiv Venom Toxin. Sorry for the derail. I just could not contain my enthusiasm for Motiv's new urethane Tank.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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