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#176847 - 03/06/13 12:54 PM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3626
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Finger pitch update. I changed the ring finger to 1/2 inch reverse (away from palm), 0 lateral. Middle finger is still 0 forward/reverse, 1-1/4 inch lateral right (lefty).

Previously, rolling the ball with 0 pitch on the ring finger, I was occasionally "catching" and hanging up in the ball. It felt like I was either going to bend my ring finger backwards or it would pop coming out of the hole. It was probably me grabbing and lifting the ball rather than rolling it off my hand. The fix was 1/2 inch reverse on the ring finger. Now, the ball feels more balanced in my hand, the release is much cleaner, and I can change axis rotation as easily as changing my hand position at release.

Notably, these are unusual finger pitches, even for somebody who likes to experiment as I do. I never would have considered these finger pitches before with my thumb in the ball. Hmm...
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#176856 - 03/06/13 04:03 PM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
mail777 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 84
A/S/L: 32/M/turkey
so joe..

whats is your fresh ideas about two handed?

i was from the first time two handed and i can say the rev sometimes can be your enemy.. especially if it is a THS or very dry lanes..

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#176889 - 03/07/13 01:58 PM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
lakredrai Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 409
A/S/L: 45/male/vancouver, wa, usa
I heard that the feel for 2 handers is more in the legs as apposed to the hand for a 1 handed bowler. I don't know if that is true or not.
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#176911 - 03/08/13 04:41 AM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3626
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Finger pitch update. I changed my ring finger to 1/2 inch reverse (away from palm), 1/4 right (lefty), and middle finger to 1/2 reverse, 1 inch right. This update was for comfort, and to get my fingers in more of a parallel position.
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#176912 - 03/08/13 05:17 AM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: mail777]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3626
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: mail777
so joe.. whats is your fresh ideas about two handed?

My impression is that bowling two-handed is a lot more work than one-handed. I say that because swinging the ball one-handed only requires minimal energy to get the ball started in a pendulum swing. Then, footwork and timing is a matter of walking around the pendulum arm swing. Two-handed, the shortened, cradle-like backswing is not sufficient to generate adequate ball speed. Thus, the two-handed bowler has to add speed either via upper body muscle, foot speed, or both. Also, because of the torqued position of the spine at the height of the two-handed bowler's backswing, a hop is almost required, which burns more energy to lift the bowler and ball off the ground.

One-handed, I can easily bowl 10-12 games in a row. Once I am warmed up and in a groove, it is as easy as taking the ball for a walk. In competition, I have noticed that I grow stronger (actually more relaxed) with each game. Two-handed, I can feel muscles tightening frame by frame, particularly biceps and chest. This creates a tendency to pull the ball. At first, I thought it was just part of the learning experience, but I don't see how it can be avoided with the two-handed style.

Also, while having the thumb in the ball may limit revs, it does provide a measure of feel and control that cannot be duplicated with the other hand.

Lastly, the impact of the additional revs on the ball path is that it hooks earlier. It does not increase entry angle, it actually reduces it. This means adjusting for a ball that is covering more of the lane, but hitting at a weaker angle. And, it may require walking one direction, rolling the other direction in order to accomplish that.

As you can see, I am having second thoughts about going two-handed.
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#176914 - 03/08/13 07:30 AM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 866
A/S/L: 42 m
Hey Joe, my only suggestion/thought here is that u can have any ball speed and entry angle u desire.. Truly u can!!! Like having your cake and eating it...

You just have to experiment with ball selection, and drilling.. You can have a nice big entry angle by drilling it long, or use a weaker ball.. These are but 2 suggestions here mate that may work almost instantly...Take your time and find balls and drilling patterns that will work..

I use my thumb in for a couple of my spares, yes for stability..

Re the 2 handed approach does seem to take a little more out of you, but remember u are only just beginning.. Overall bowling isn't like running a 5km..You are going to feel the difference between the various single and 2 handed delivery..It is very early days..

Tired arms and muscles, yep been there, it is no diferent to using weights when u first begin at a gym... it will take time to build up to bowling a 10 game block using a 2 handed delivery.

Joe for whats it's worth, please reconsider giving up, before u really even started...

YOu mentioned earlier that 18 mph and 500 revs could be conceivable for u (this is from memory and an earlier post).. How are those numbers doing at the moment.

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#177210 - 03/16/13 05:18 PM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
tovarnak Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 101
A/S/L: 24/M/Slovakia
Probably you are doing something wrong, I can easily play 12 games in a row and I hardly feel a thing. If anything I feel my legs and sometimes the back, but that only when I need to put a lot of speed at the end of the day to make ball to push through dry part (and I can't generate such velocity just by feet themselves). But I don't remember having "heavy" arms. Note that I am not muscular, my upper body strength is nothing special and I sit on a chair 12 hours a day at minimum.
From my experience bowling 2-handed is as easy as any other style, but it takes time to get it right on a level that it even feels right, everything in a sport needs its time. If you are practicing only by yourself without coach, it might be difficult to get rid of (or to spot) some small but important things. If there is noone to help you around you can do what I am doing - let someone to record you and watch it yourself. This helped me a lot and I was able to quickly improve.
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#177229 - 03/17/13 08:35 AM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3626
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
When I first started rolling the ball two-handed, I tried maintaining the same one-handed footwork. My ball speed dropped to around 11-12 MPH. I figured I was still learning and the speed would come later. After rolling several games two-handed, I realized that the only way to generate more ball speed was applying more effort to foot speed and/or arm speed. Very simply, this is because the ball will never achieve the same height in the backswing as a one-handed bowler. Even if my two-handed technique was flawed, hopping and heaving is always going to require more effort than walking and swinging. In the final analysis, I prefer the ease and reliability of gravity.
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#177248 - 03/17/13 11:13 PM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
Drought_LIS Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 02/23/13
Posts: 4
A/S/L: 29/m/Lincoln
Thanks for the feedback and for letting us know how this worked out for you. I was the official scorer for some lanes during the state tournament yesterday and I don't think I saw a single bowler use a 2 hand approach. Did see some interesting backup ball bowlers though.

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#177254 - 03/18/13 07:46 AM Re: Going Two-Handed [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3626
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Now, I am wondering if there is any defense bowling 1-handed against a 2-handed bowler playing the same area of the lane?
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