BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#175249 - 01/18/13 08:05 PM Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless?
NoThumbNoProblem Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 28/m/York, PA
So this is my first post on the forums here, and my question may be a bit strange. As my name suggests I am a thumbless bowler and have adapted my style over the last 3 years. I originally threw two-handed, but saw little use for the second hand once my wrist became strong enough to control the ball.

I recently had an old Track Blue Heat plugged and redrilled without a thumb hole since I kept rolling over it as I threw on lighter oil patterns. I had it drilled with the pin about 11 o'clock of my middle finger for extra length on dry conditions. After throwing it for a bit I didn't like the shape of the backend as it was too sharp and unpredictable. On a whim I decided to throw the ball "upside down" by rotating the ball 180* (x axis) and putting my ring in the middle insert and vise versa. This meant the pin was now 5 o'clock of my ring finger. I still had good length considering the ball is essentially a pearl with the particle coverstock seeing over 200 games. I liked the reaction so much better I decided to switch the inserts and keep the ball drilled in that manner.

That led to the thought and question behind this post: Can I use interchangeable thumb slugs as finger inserts so that I can use the same ball with essentially two different layouts? It would be convenient to be able to just flip the finger around for when the lanes break down from a pin down position to a pin up position. The ball I tried it on had a symmetrical core, so I assume there's no problem as far as CG location but may be an issue for an asymmetrical core. Anybody familiar with interchangeable slugs that sees any inherent problems?

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#175252 - 01/18/13 08:50 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
NoThumbNoProblem Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 28/m/York, PA
Well, just found out that Turbo makes interchangeable finger inserts. So now the thought is to get those and just switch the ring and middle when I want the ball to react sooner or later. Any issues with that as far as how the ball will behave?
_________________________
DV8 Thug Corrupt
Ebonite Magic
Brunswick C-System Alpha Max
Track 300c (Pearl)
Storm Tropical Breeze
Brunswick Vis-A-Ball Lizard Eye

HG: 298
HS: 778

Top
#175259 - 01/18/13 11:41 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
They use interchangeable fingers for demo days to help fit people into the demo balls.

I don't know the exact rule but I believe there are restrictions on where the thumb hole has to be located, using the ball upside down might not be legal. Not sure on that, Joe or Calvin or one of the other guys that knows the rules better might be able to confirm or correct me on that.

Top
#175261 - 01/19/13 01:09 AM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: B-Hammer]
NoThumbNoProblem Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 28/m/York, PA
Thanks for the response. I don't drill a thumb hole anymore so it should be okay as far as that rule. The rule is supposed to be that you can only have one extra hole for weight/balance and all other holes must be demonstrated to be used by the bowler during a release. At least that is how I remember it from the USBC rules. I'm more worried about how different the reactions would be going from something like a RICO layout to the opposite where the pin is above the fingers. Makes for a cheaper arsenal if that were the case.
_________________________
DV8 Thug Corrupt
Ebonite Magic
Brunswick C-System Alpha Max
Track 300c (Pearl)
Storm Tropical Breeze
Brunswick Vis-A-Ball Lizard Eye

HG: 298
HS: 778

Top
#175266 - 01/19/13 08:39 AM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I have interchangeable fingers from Turbo. The problem you will face is that the finger inserts fit into the ball because it has a peg on one side that fits into a notch in the sleeve to keep it in the correct position. This peg cannot be used upside-down as it won't go into the sleeve.
_________________________
LM - Black Diamond 15#
Lord Field - Exodus Pearl 15#
Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
Legends - L/M Xtreme Damage 15# Strong pearl




Top
#175275 - 01/19/13 01:18 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: Dennis Michael]
NoThumbNoProblem Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 28/m/York, PA
That's why I was thinking of using ovals instead of lifts for the inserts so that they feel comfortable both ways. Otherwise I can just have a second set of inserts with the grips flipped around. I know it seems like a lot of work, but being able to have different reactions from the same ball seems cheaper than buying a second ball.

If I assume correctly, on a symmetrical ball the Pin distance is actually a radius around the pin to the CG. By turning the ball upsidedown all I'm really doing is moving the pin and the CG and PAP are still in the same spot.

Maybe I'm way off on this whole thing and buy flipping the ball I'm messing up the dual layout. I'm hoping somebody with a better understanding of layouts and reactions could give some insight.


Attachments
Flipped Pin.png


_________________________
DV8 Thug Corrupt
Ebonite Magic
Brunswick C-System Alpha Max
Track 300c (Pearl)
Storm Tropical Breeze
Brunswick Vis-A-Ball Lizard Eye

HG: 298
HS: 778

Top
#175285 - 01/19/13 07:01 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
Kitten Latch Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 211
A/S/L: 19/M/Australia
Pretty sure it doesn't work like that. XD Otherwise having the cg further towards you're pap wouldn't allow larger balance holes. The CG is the point that is heaviest, if you were to flip the ball like you're showing, the cg would be somewhere above your fingers, and the static weights would almost certainly be illegal.
_________________________
Sting [email protected]
Buzz [email protected]
Terminator [email protected]
Black Pearl [email protected]
Terminator [email protected]
[email protected]

High Series: 793(3), 1033(4)
High Game: 300x1 17/6/11

Top
#175287 - 01/19/13 07:19 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: Kitten Latch]
NoThumbNoProblem Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 93
A/S/L: 28/m/York, PA
When they talk about a core being symmetrical, doesn't that mean it has point symmetry from the pin? If we look at a basic lightbulb type core, then why would it be heavier at one point and not just as heavy the same distance from the pin on the other side? from a pin down perspective it would look like sphere in a sphere. If we took a core like that in a DV8 Hell Raiser I can understand.

the static rule is based around the finger holes anyhow, so as long as neither isde, nor top/bottom is an ounce heavier than the other it's legal. If it is a complete 180* rotation, then the balance should be the same as well only going from maybe .5 ounce above the fingers to .5 ounces below the fingers.

The diagram I forgot to put a PAP. If we assume the cg distance is the same (with some debate, but again just assume) then the only thing changing would be the pin to PAP. I guess I'll just have to bring my ball down to my Pro Shop and have the proper measurements taken from both sides and see if the static is the same and what the layouts are for a comparison.
_________________________
DV8 Thug Corrupt
Ebonite Magic
Brunswick C-System Alpha Max
Track 300c (Pearl)
Storm Tropical Breeze
Brunswick Vis-A-Ball Lizard Eye

HG: 298
HS: 778

Top
#175288 - 01/19/13 08:17 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
Kitten Latch Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 211
A/S/L: 19/M/Australia
Bowling ball cores are not 100% symmetrical. Even symmetrical cores do have a mass bias, even though it is very small.

Taken from Bowling chat's Wiki: Center of Gravity is not entirely accurate, the CG is typically a heavy spot on the ball for balancing purposes, the manufacturers place additional weight (known as top weight) to account for drilling, the punch mark approximates the spot where the ball when placed in a salt water solution "balances" itself, this is an approximation by the ball manufacturers as the "heavy spot" is down in the solution and the employee marking the ball has to measure 180* away from where they actually see it.

I'm not entirely sure about the static weights, but I just can't imagine it being legal, but it might be. I dunno. XD
_________________________
Sting [email protected]
Buzz [email protected]
Terminator [email protected]
Black Pearl [email protected]
Terminator [email protected]
[email protected]

High Series: 793(3), 1033(4)
High Game: 300x1 17/6/11

Top
#175292 - 01/19/13 09:44 PM Re: Interchangeable Finger inserts for Thumbless? [Re: NoThumbNoProblem]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1159
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
Balls drilled without thumb holes are measured for static balance by centering the ball in the scale with the point between the finger holes as the grip center, so if its legal one way, it will be legal upside down. You should get rather different reactions from each ball you have drilled like this. Ovals would be your best choice for grips.
As far as symmetrical cores go, they can be rotated around the pin with little to no difference in shape. Basically round, with possibly a few notches here and there. Notches would keep the core from shifting in the ball in the event it loosens with temperature change or other separation. Asymmetrical cores are anything but round, and these different shapes give the ball what amounts to a secondary heavy spot, which is marked as the mass bias. It's located 90 degrees from the pin (6 3/4") at a spot over the heaviest spot of the side of the core. It rarely aligns with the line throu the pin and cg, and is used to fine tune the layout for desired reaction.
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

Bowl up a Storm!

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Fall/Winter 2018-19 Leagues Thread
by Richie V. - 10/18/18 04:06 PM
Mo Pinel "Striking Effectively In Today's Game"
by BOSStull - 10/14/18 06:16 AM
Buying new house shoes.
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:58 AM
Storm/Roto Grip MatchMaker Live
by BOSStull - 10/11/18 05:44 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.