This two confuse me all the time and the following are what I understand:
1. When I release my ball at the foul line (assume I'm a stroker and style is 10 10), my hand is completely behind the ball and roll forward.
in this case, the ball axis is parallel to the foul line, therefore the axis rotation 0 degree because axis rotation is measured the angle between the ball axis and the horizontal line.
in terms of axis tilt, it is 90 degree because axis tilt is measured the angle between the ball axis and the vertical line. the ball axis is also 90 degree angle as compared to the gutter - but this one I dont know the term to describe it.
2. When I release my ball at the foul line (again assume I'm a stroker and style is 10 10), my hand is completely at the side of the ball and rotate counter clock-wise (right-hander).
in this case, the ball axis is 90 degree angle to the foul line, therefore the axis rotation 90 degree.
in terms of axis tilt, it is also 90 degree as compared to the vertical line. the ball axis however is 0 degree angle as compared to the gutter.
3. When I release my ball at the foul line (again assume I'm a stroker and style is 10 10), my hand is completely at the side of the ball and move forward (right-hander), commonly known as spinning the ball.
in this case, the ball axis is 90 degree angle to the foul line, therefore the axis rotation 90 degree.
in terms of axis tilt, it is also 0 degree as compared to the vertical line. the ball axis however is 90 degree angle as compared to the gutter.
4. When I release my ball at the foul line (again assuming I'm a stroker and style is 10 10), my hand is half at the back of the ball and half at the side of the ball and rotate counter clock-wise (right-hander) ie 45 degree release.
in this case, the ball axis is 45 degree angle to the foul line, therefore the axis rotation 45 degree.
in terms of axis tilt, it is also 45 degree as compared to the vertical line. the ball axis is also 45 degree angle as compared to the gutter.
Now:
If someone asks tell me to increase my axis rotation, that means I have to place my hand more to the side of the ball.
If someone ask me to increase my axis tilt, that means I have to make the ball axis lessor angle to the gutter and larger angle to the vertical line. To do that I have to place my hand more to the side of and under the ball and rotate counter clock-wise.
Can anyone tell me whether I'm correct and pinpoint where are the wrongs.
To do an accurate discussion of this topic ,we must establish the difference between axis of rotation and axis tilt .Some times people use thes terms interchangebly , they are NOT .They have a different meanings. Axis of rotation is define as how far the axis of rotation is rotating from a pure forward roll in the horizontal direction ,wich is measured in degrees.
Axis tilt is defined as how far the positive end of the axis of rotation is above the middle of the ball measured in degrees .
Axis of rotation is in the horizontal plane while axis tilt is in the vertical plane .I hope this will help you understand a little more.
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Relax its only a game RAY200 F.I.Q Level 2 Certified Coach Level 1 Certified Instructor Pro shop operator
(That's suppose to be a ball...use your imagination.) Try to ignore the dots. I had to use them as placeholders because the graphic collapsed (spaces eliminated) when I posted.
The carot and the line at the top symbolize an arrow indicating the direction the ball is traveling down the lane. (Remember, we're viewing from the top.) The arrow inside the graphic indicates the direction the ball is rotating. The three hyphens on either side indicate the axis about which the ball is rotating. Since it is traveling in the same direction it is rotating, we have 0 degree axis rotation.
As you concluded, this would be a ball released with the hand fully behind and up the ball.
Same direction of travel, but the ball is skidding. The direction the ball is rotating is 90 degress from the direction of travel as indicated by the arrow inside the ball. Again, the three dashed lines symbolize the axis on which the ball is rotating as viewed from the top.
This would be the 'cranker' release. As you noted, with the release effort focused on the side of the ball.
Hopefully you have guessed from this really ugly graphic, this is a 45 degree axis of rotation. The slash in the ball is the direction the ball is rotating. I couldn't put an arrowhead on it because there is nothing on the keyboard that looks like a 45 degree arrowhead.
AXIS TILT:
For axis tilt, we lay down on the approach and look at the back of the ball as it travels away from us:
Again, the three hypens on either side of the ball indicate the axis about which the ball is rotating, but viewed from the rear. In this case the axis of rotation is horizontal with respect to the lane. That would be zero degree axis tilt. The three lines inside the ball symbolize the oil line or 'Track' of the ball. The Track would essentially be dividing the ball in half for a zero degree axis tilt.
The three slashes outside of the ball graphic is the axis about which the ball is rotating. Since we are viewing the ball from the rear, the axis is tilted 45 degrees. The lines inside the ball poorly represent the ballTrack. The Track would actually be about halfway between the lower axis point and the center of rotation of the ball. In other words, the more axis tilt, the smaller the Track as it gets closer to the axis point.
This is the 'helicopter'. The axis of rotation is perpendicular to the lane. For explanation purposes, there is no Track because the ball is spinning about the contact point on the lane.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Originally posted by Coachrich: Hi Maf south,
Let me give it a shot... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">Rich...Excellent way to describe rotation and tilt. This is a very hard thing for most bowlers to understand and the visual along with the words made it much better. Great work...
See ya in a few days...
Dan
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coachrich, thank you very much for your illustruation particularly on axis tilt even though I still not 100% understand. I'll try to read more books to get it right.
Coach Rich, First let me say applause for your drawing of the axis tilt and axis rotation. Next I almost understand it. That amazes me. I don't think I will use this cause there is enough doubt in my mind to stay away. But what can be done with a computer may not be able to be done with a bowling ball. You are better at what you do then I thought. Keep up the good work.
I understand the graphics. They were done well considering the medium here! Thanks a bunch!
But how do I determine what my axis of rotataion and tilt is? Heck I just try to get it down the lane where I can reasonably control it. Should I have someone watch me and guestimate or should I videotape myself from above and behind and try to measure it? Does anyone know how to get the most accurate measurement of these attributes of my roll?
You can see it by putting tape on your axis point and observing the tape as the ball travels down the lane.
After throwing the ball and retreiving it from the return, look for the oil ring. There may be several rings that intersect at two points depending upon how the ball was drilled for reaction.
Put the ball in an ashtray so that the ring is on the top half of the ball and level to the floor. If several rings, use the ring closest to the thumb hole.
The point at the top and bottom of the ball is your axis of rotation. Place a piece of white tape (white balltape used to adjust hole size will do) at the very top of the ball.
When you throw the ball, you will should see the tape as a solid spinning dot. If it looks like a small ring, you may need to adjust the tape position until you find the axis point.
If the ball had several rings, the tape should look like a solid dot, then begin to 'wobble'. This is called axis migration and is evident on balls drilled for more reaction on the back end.
If the dot is spinning parallel to the lane and pointed to the side wall of the bowling center you have zero degrees of axis tilt (dot parallel to the lane) and zero degress axis of rotation (dot pointed toward the wall).
As the dot is directed more toward the lane, the more axis tilt. As the dot is pointed more toward you, the greater the axis of rotation.
Thank you for the tip!! I remember a coach putting a round piece of tape on the outside of my Track when I was a teenager. When I shot, the tape seemed to stay on the left side, almost as if it were floating. But when my ball got farther down the lane, it began to move slightly towards me and to the ceiling. I'm going to try it now and see if I'm rolling it any different. I never thought it would help me find the angles of rotation and tilt, so I guess that's what my coach was looking for.
Anakin Skywalker
Bracket Donator
Registered: 02/09/01
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I still think the best way to describe the differences between axis tilt and axis rotation is the Dukes of Hazzard model.
When Bo and Luke Duke drive the car and do a side wheelie on the two left tires, the tires are still pointed straight ahead, but they're on their side a bit. About 20-30 degrees maybe? That is axis tilt.
When Bo and Luke Duke make a U-turn at about 45 miles an hour, they turn the steering wheel as far to the side as the wheels can go - that is axis rotation. Going straight is zero degrees axis rotation - turning left is about 45-50 degrees axis rotation.
Now imagine them turning left while doing the side wheelie - that tire has 45 degree axis rotation and about 25 degree axis tilt.....
The key to teaching is being able to relate the theory to something the learners are familiar with. EVERYBODY knows about them Duke boys and their antics with the General Lee.
This is all very interesting and I often check my ball for oil from the ball return. I often find that there are often four to five rings of oil on my ball, running realtivly close to the thumb hole. What does this indicate, what should I be looking for, what is it that I am looking to acheive? Sorry if this is a basic question to a complex science!
Are there any good books that I can get. I did attend a Dick Ritger camp many years ago when he came to the UK.
Registered: 06/19/04
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A/S/L: 52 Male Cyprus
I would also like to know more about the oil ring on the ball. I have been told that if the ring is too near the thumb hole I should adjust my release. The person said that I should imagine a clock and place my thumb at about 11 o clock. I have questioned them again but I still cannot work out what they are trying to tell me. If this is not anything to do with axis of tilt and rotation I am sorry.
Axis tilt and axis rotation deal with the angle at which the ball is revolving. The ball revolves on two planes: 1) horizontal, and 2) vertical. The angle of the ball's revolutions dictates the resistance to forward roll. Resistance to forward roll is synonymous with skid, delaying the breakpoint of the ball. The breakpoint is the point on the lane where the ball starts to make its move to the pocket.
Axis tilt is the vertical angle at which the ball rotates. Axis tilt is what is commonly known as spin. Axis tilt is determined by the position of the thumb during the release. If the hand turns too early, the thumb exits on top of the ball. Bowlers with a high degree of axis tilt will be able to see the top of their hand during the release and follow through. Being able to have the thumb exit at the bottom of the down swing minimizes axis tilt.
Axis tilt will induce skid and reduce the amount of backend hook potential. With the core rotating in a more vertical fashion, oily lanes will be the enemy, drier lanes its friend.
Axis rotation is the horizontal measure of the angle of the ball's revolutions. It is also determined by the release. It is the release position of the fingers that dictates the amount of axis rotation. Axis rotation is commonly known as side roll. When the fingers exit the ball in a 6:00 position, the ball is sent into an end-over-end roll. This is known as 0 degrees of axis rotation, the absolute minimum. This ball will have no chance of hooking, regardless of the amount of revolutions, ball speed, and lane conditions. The ball will have immediate forward roll. Think of it as being behind the wheel of a car with the steering wheel straight. The tires will face in a north-south direction. The car will go straight, not being able to negotiate a curve in the road.
If the fingers exit the ball in a 3:00 position, caused by a rotation of the hand in a counter-clockwise direction, 90 degrees of axis rotation will result. This will give the ball a tremendous hook angle when it encounters friction. This is similar to being in that same car. However the steering wheel is now turned so that the tires are angled to the left. When the accelerator is engaged, the car will **** violently to the left. (For lefthanders, the fingers will exit the ball at a 9:00 position, the hand rotates in a clockwise direction, and the car wheels would be pointed to the right).
Most players have a finger exit somewhere in between 0 and 90 degrees. The halfway point, 45 degrees, will see the fingers exit the ball at 4:30 at the release point (7:30 for lefthanders). This is the most versatile release position. Please consult the Surface Friction Guide, True Grit, for pictures of axis rotation and axis tilt.
Axis rotation also will cause the ball to skid further but, unlike axis tilt, will cause a dramatic hook angle at the breakpoint. 90-degree axis rotation is often quite uncontrollable at the breakpoint. High degree of axis rotation players will also tend to like drier lanes; minimal axis rotation will tend to like more oil.
The ball, as it is rolling down the lane, will lose axis rotation due to encountering friction. The rate at which the ball loses axis rotation (side revolutions turning into end-over-end revolutions) will be determined by the initial axis rotation, the amount of ball speed, the amount of axis tilt, and the amount of oil on the lane. For the best carry percentage, we want the ball to lose axis rotation (enter into an end-over-end roll) just as it enters the pocket. This will give a strong angle of entry into the pocket and the proper amount of deflection.
Your Pro Shop technician will be able to assist you in determining your axis tilt and axis rotation. While it is not necessary to know the exact angle, knowing whether you have low, medium, or high amounts of each will make understanding your ball's reaction easier.
A few years ago, someone pointed out that on my release, I was coming around the side too much, and the ball was spinning more than it was rolling. They told me that the more the ball spins, the less the rotation of the ball translates it's momentum to the pins.
Is it safe to say that a ball that rolls and has a tight rotation about its axis will have a higher angular momentum, and therefore will drive through the pins more? Or is a level of deflection a good thing?
I think it was Marshall Holman that stated in his book that it is mainly a forward rollingball that creates pin-clearing power; in other words minimal rotation and tilt.
According to Marshall, you want mainly forward revs; with a cupped wrist, release through the ball, not around it.
I do come around the ball somewhat, but I try to release through the ball at the target.
A little deflection is desirable or you end up with what I did a few weeks ago; I had the 1st nine and hung a 9-pin on the 1st ball in the 10th.
Hope this helps! Dave
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Forward roll begins after pin migration, release determines the migration point in the ball path. You do not want minimal tilt and rotation. You want the amount it takes to cause the ball to migrate just before heading into the pocket. With some lane conditions that may be a minimal amount, others it may be a major amount.
It all depends on if the ball is going long, or going short. Learning to control axis tilt and rotation can make you a heck of a versatile bowler.
The other night in league I was really frustrated because my ball was over-hooking, and someone pointed out that I was releasing with a 90 degree axis tilt. I had thought that I was releasing more end over end. How wrong could you be...?! So now I'm working on controlling my axit tilt.
So my question is, is 90 degrees too much for any lane condition, or are there times when it is appropriate?
Darrell
Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 01/25/05
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Hello Bowling fans! Cheetah, I think you mean to say axis of rotation. When the bowling ball is released at 90 degrees axis of rotation, the ball tends to skid longer on oil, but when it hits the dry... left turn hard! To achieve 90 degree rotation of axis your hand must come around the ball and release the ball at about 3 o'clock. You must be coming up the side of the ball. Try experimenting coming more up the back of the ball, releasing at say 5 o'clock or between 4 & 5 o'clock producing about a 45 degree rotation of axis. This you will find will tend to produce a more controlled hook. Check out this web sight: Watch the stroker release (5 o'clock) verses the Cranker release (4 o'clock). http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/kVideo.htm#Ball
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-------------------- May all your corner pins fall
Darrell
Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 404
A/S/L: 46 Male Michigan
Hello Cheetah. It seems like you are releasing the ball at 3 o'clock. Your hand is apparently coming around the ball and coming up the side. You will be looking at the axis point of the ball in this case. When your ball hits the dry therefore, the reaction is going to be a violent hook on certain lane conditions. Obviously you can control this in most situations because you have a nice bowling average. But as you know some lane conditions will not allow you to use your "A" game, so you MUST develope a "B" game. I am working through the same problem as you. I am using a new release the league play and work on my "B" game in every practice session. I am going to consult a Gold level coach in the off season. May I suggest, that you do the same. You already have a great game. Think continuous Improvement.
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Darrell "D Man"
-------------------- May all your corner pins fall
I tried different releases in practice this weekend, working on releasing with my hand closer to 5 o'clock. By reaching out a little further in my release, it was a lot easier to stay behind the ball. Even on dry lanes I was able to keep the ball outside of the 10 board from the lay down point to the breakpoint, and even shot a 279 in one of my games.
I figure that under different circumstances, my axis of rotation had been less than 90 degrees, but I never realized it, let alone knew what it took to control it.
802dave,
You talked about forward roll creating more pin-clearing action. Do you think this applies to single pins too, particularly when shooting the 7-10? I've never come even remotely close to picking up the 7-10, probably due to the way I throw the ball. I use a plastic ball, but my 90 degree axis rotation doesn't kick the pin up at all or send it off the back wall. I tried the new release on the 10 pins, and wouldn't you know it, I had the 10 pin roll across the 7 pin spot 5 times in the 10 games I bowled (if only I had left the 7 pin too).
Darrell
Team USA Hopeful
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 404
A/S/L: 46 Male Michigan
Hello all. Cheetah, you can shoot 211 averages with that kind side rotation, thats great. Next season you are going to be truly awesome. By the way, if you can bottle it, I will buy some. Happy Bowling.
_________________________
Darrell "D Man"
-------------------- May all your corner pins fall
Hmm, 7-10 conversions and axis tilt. Well, I've been lucky enough to pick up two 7-10's, luck being the key word, and on both conversions the rotation or roll of the ball really had no impact on the way the ball contacted the corner pin. Both times I through at the 10 pin (right handed) because it was easier to generate speed and momentum aiming towards the pin that was outside of my right shoulder. Also I didn't want to chance cracking my ankle!=) The key for both of my conversions was to focus on creating a "dead roll". In terms of axis tilt and axis rotation, well, I didn't want any. I kept my wrist completely broken throughout the swing and release; this allowed a very free swing as well as eliminated wrist action at the point of release, ofcourse no "snapping" allowed! The second thing I focused on was to release the ball with fingers and thumb at the same time. By doing this there is a skid that occurs not from axis rotation, but from an honest "dead" rollingball. Have you ever seen a beginning bowler lob a house ball down the lane at what seems to be at a hundred miles an hour and you can actually see the thumb hole on top of the ball at it plain out skids through across the entire lane? Well, that's the release you want. Hardest part: try not to rocket the ball into the pit! Just flow with your natural rhythm and swing, the power will be there if you trust your natural momentum.
Hey nublet, that was an awesome little document on axis and rotation. I'm surprised it was so simply explained considering it was from a ball manufacturer. I've learned so much from this thread; this is great!
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