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#176331 - 02/19/13 06:43 PM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
I totally blocked out everything behind me while I was bowling.


Best advice I have ever heard.

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#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#176332 - 02/19/13 06:46 PM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: CoachJim]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Quote:
Have you tried a weaker ball, when the ball stops making the turn back? I have seen the head oil go away, leaving you with next to no side rotation past the arrows, making the ball go straight down lane. Lofting the ball farther down lane might also be the answer.

Thank you for the suggestion. I was thinking weaker ball when I switched to the Ascent Pearl. It allowed me to roll straight up the 8 board. I needed a little more pop on the back, though. Tomorrow's session is fresh oil again, then the burn on Thursday. My plan for tomorrow is to start with the Primal Impulse, then switch to the Ascent Pearl. Both are high RG pearls. The Primal has a higher Diff, so I am hoping for a stronger backend.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#176334 - 02/19/13 07:15 PM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1643
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Quote:
What I meant about the pros playing the lanes front to back versus left to right has to do with where to find the friction. On most house shots, bowlers are able to find the friction on the outside. As long as the ball is heading inside to outside, the house shot bowler can count on the ball coming back towards the pocket. On flatter shots, like the pros are used to seeing, the only friction they can count on is at the end of the pattern. A miss outside and the ball might not make it back to the headpin. With more experience on flatter patterns, I believe the pros become adept at placing the ball more precisely down lane where it needs to be to hit the pocket and carry.



That's what I figured...makes sense - thanks.


Quote:
then the burn on Thursday


A lot of guys were playing deep 4-5th arrow on the burn. Then others were still doing well playing more down-and=in so who knows.
_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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#176335 - 02/19/13 07:18 PM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I have seen them do this a couple times, the shot changes very rapidly, but only the front. The old C pattern did this (now the chameleon)I would find a line, then it would go away, and I would spend the next two or three games finding a line, then I would find one, but farther inside than before, and a different break point, 8 instead of 5, then 11 instead of 8. I would get a fresh back end reaction moving inside parallel, moving my feet and target and breakpoint in. Being left handed you may not make it inside far enough up front to prevent lofting the ball. The right handers will take some of your head oil before you get there I'm afraid, so moving back outside and lofting with more speed and more ball might be the answer, you will have to make these moves very quickly at the cost of a frame to be wrong up front.

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#176344 - 02/20/13 08:40 AM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1163
A/S/L: 53/M/Virginia Beach, VA
One of my buddies did pretty well there yesterday- Gary Faulkner- sitting +93, said he threw a HyRoad.
Joe- good assessment of the pros playing them front to back. There's no free hook on that kind of pattern, at least not until it gets late in the block. I keep hearing how Belmo and Osku tear a pattern apart with their rev rates, leaving it almost unplayable for everyone else. It's possible you ran into a little of that crossing with the two-handed lefty. Moving out with either a strong shell/weak drill or weak shell/strong drill combination might be the answer to that problem. Hopefully fresh oil makes a difference for you. Good luck, have fun, and stay focused!
_________________________
Experience is something you get immediately after you need it most

Bowl up a Storm!

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#176347 - 02/20/13 09:33 AM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: VFF57]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
Originally Posted By: VFF57
Btw, when you get some time maybe you can explain what you were saying about what the Pro's were saying about playing the lane front-back vs left-right. I thought I understood, but now I'm not sure....


"Left-right" is easy because it's what most of us do. On a THS (blocked) lane we get lined up, and ideally after a trip-4 or a near stone 8 we know to start moving inside, chasing the oil line left (for a right hander). You don't HAVE to do that, but it allows you to take advantage of the miss area to the right and the hold on the left. If you chose instead to shell down and/or throw harder, the oil line will still be moving left even though you didn't go with it, and your hold will be gone. In my league this is only slightly complicated for me because I tend to have a lot of traffic bowling to the left of me, so when I move left I'd better move a LOT, 2 and 1 will only put me into the other bowler's burned area and I'm thru the nose for SURE.

"Front-back" is harder because I never get to bowl on flat patterns (poor me, right?) An amateur bowler might hear "short oil pattern" and equate that with "dry lane", thus try to play inside. Well, your ball will be hitting the friction fairly early, and thus will be covering a lot of boards... so what you really need to do is get that ball to the OUTSIDE, this way the ball hits the friction and has room to hook all those boards and get to the pocket.

Conversely, a house bowler might hear "long pattern" and think "oily". Being a house hack myself, it's ingrained in my brain that when the lanes are oily, move right until you find friction. I don't care if I have to play 3 at the arrows and 1 at the breakpoint with my strongest ball, I'll find something. But "long" is different from "oily". If the lane is oiled way down, the ball will be hitting friction later. Play that outside line like my house hack self will want to do, and the ball will have to cover a whole lot of boards "right to left" in not much distance. I cannot do that. Instead, you need to play more inside with a break point more inside, closer to the pocket, so the ball can cover the required boards in the shorter time it has once hitting friction.

So it's all about the breakpoint and managing that. As oil is stripped off the lane by reactive resin balls, there are things you can do other than moving left to manage your break point. Shell down, roll harder, more up-the-back, you can look farther down the lane or change wrist position, maybe the same ball with different layout and/or surface... there isn't any hold to speak of anyways so the incentive to chase an oil line isn't there like on a THS. A pro has to make all of those decisions and they DO also make left-right adjustments, watch pretty much any telecast and you'll see it.
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#176349 - 02/20/13 10:35 AM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Fin09]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: Fin09
One of my buddies did pretty well there yesterday- Gary Faulkner- sitting +93, said he threw a HyRoad.
Joe- good assessment of the pros playing them front to back. There's no free hook on that kind of pattern, at least not until it gets late in the block. I keep hearing how Belmo and Osku tear a pattern apart with their rev rates, leaving it almost unplayable for everyone else. It's possible you ran into a little of that crossing with the two-handed lefty. Moving out with either a strong shell/weak drill or weak shell/strong drill combination might be the answer to that problem. Hopefully fresh oil makes a difference for you. Good luck, have fun, and stay focused!

Thanks, Fin. The top amateur after 5 games (+203), Allen Rice II, or A.J. as he likes to be called, is the two-handed lefty that I was paired up with yesterday. I don't know him that well, but we have bowled tournaments together before in Pennsylvania. One tournament that he won, he averaged in the 260's for 10 games. He is a likable, young guy with monster potential.

Yesterday, he was rolling a Sync. We were hitting the same mark around 8 board at the arrows, but because of his rev rate, he was circling around to the outside of the other lefty and I, and bringing it back and carrying all of his light hits. That was part of my reason for rolling my strongest ball, the Raptor Talon, to try to stay inside of his line. I think we are bowling together again today, and my strategy is to play more direct, but still inside his line, if possible. I need a ball that will make the turn quickly at the end, and have enough traction to carry the rack. Hopefully, my pearl Primal Impulse will help get the job done. Execution will be the key.

Btw, I did get to see Osku bowl in practice, and he was hooking the whole lane, like it was a house shot. It was amazing to see how many revs he puts on the ball.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#176355 - 02/20/13 11:23 AM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: 56bird]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Quote:
"Front-back" is harder because I never get to bowl on flat patterns

I believe that is the key for most of us. Because of work schedules, dwindling PBA Experience/Sport Shot leagues, and other factors, it is hard to find the time and place to practice on the more challenging patterns. How can a bowler get a true assessment of their ability, and practice that helps them genuinely improve their form, accuracy, and power without the kind of feedback that a more challenging shot provides? It seems like the only place to "practice" is at tournaments where they put down a different shot, and for newbies to that level of competition, it can be an expensive way to learn.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#176356 - 02/20/13 11:36 AM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
56bird Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 01/06/13
Posts: 706
A/S/L: 47 Male, Malta NY
So true. My old house, Carmel Bowl in Carmel NY was pretty cool about putting out a shot for you if you asked, as long as you gave some consideration to scheduling. Unfortunately, you could say I lost that place in the divorce (d'-oh!) It was there I took part in a "ball motion seminar" put on by the Pro Shop, Bob Learn and Bill O'Neal and got a basic grasp of the ideas in my previous post. They put down most if not all of the animal patterns, and I learned that I could hit the pocket on Shark really consistently. Unfortunately it was the 3-6 pocket. crying Carmel is a 2.5+ hour drive for me now, a little much for bowling practice.
_________________________
Code Red, Code Black, Roto Grip Hustle POW, White Dot in the bag.

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#176358 - 02/20/13 01:15 PM Re: 2013 USBC Masters [Re: Joe Bowler]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1643
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
I was looking at the results and I found this link for live scores:

http://www.carolier.meriq.com/scoring.asp?alley=155&showdate=1824
_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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