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#172611 - 10/31/12 08:46 AM Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
First, apologies concerning the video quality. This was my first attempt at capturing and posting a video. After shooting it, I learned how to adjust the frame rate from 30 to 60 for smoother slow motion. Also, I know that I needed more distance on the side shot. The counter guy was not helpful setting me up between kids bumper bowling. Next time, I will go to a different bowling center.

Second, I am aware that I turn my wrist inwards in my backswing. When I saw that, my immediate reaction was that I have to fix it. I am gathering opinions about that in another thread. Also, my knee bend is limited. That is the result of carrying a "few" extra pounds. Anyway, here goes. Please let me know what else you see.






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Legend

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#172625 - 10/31/12 04:08 PM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I now see why you prefer high flaring balls. Your hand turns outside of the ball at the bottom of the downswing. You roll with close to a 90 degree side rotation.

Otherwise, I like your pushoff step, slide and extension.
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#172628 - 10/31/12 05:43 PM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Dennis Michael]
FruitFly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 262
A/S/L: 29/M/Kiel, Germany
Other than the obvious "early turn"ing the only thing that jumps me is your last step before the slide. You step into your swing.

This doesn't seem to hurt you though since you have wonderful spine tilt which you hold perfectly thoughout your approach.
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#172632 - 10/31/12 09:06 PM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1643
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Quote:
I am aware that I turn my wrist inwards in my backswing


Yeah I see that too, but you do recover from it at the bottom of your swing. The negative of turning inward as you know is it kills some wrist revs as opposed to turning outwards (working the inside of the ball). I know my wrist teeters inward some in my backswing as well. Starting the ball with my wrist cocked so my thumb is at 3:00 (righty) counteracts the inward wrist turn when I feel it happening. Your hand does come around the ball quite a bit for a lot of side rotation and you manage to keep your hand from turning over which is a good thing.

Overall looks good Joe. Nice and smooth with good balance at the line.
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#172643 - 11/01/12 12:15 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Thanks for all the comments. I am curious enough to experiment with trying to stay behind the ball the entire delivery to the point of release. I am just not sure I can do it without shortening my backswing or opening my shoulder. Will post again in a few weeks...
_________________________
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Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#172650 - 11/01/12 06:13 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Dennis Michael]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3825
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
I now see why you prefer high flaring balls. Your hand turns outside of the ball at the bottom of the downswing. You roll with close to a 90 degree side rotation.

Dennis, I am missing the connection between high flaring balls and 90 degree side rotation. Would you please explain? Right now, I don't have anything in my arsenal that flares more than 5 inches. Ideally, the Ogre Particle (heavier, longer oil) would flare 6 inches but falls short, the Versa Max flares 5 inches (medium, benchmark ball), the Natural Pearl (lighter, shorter oil) flares 4 inches, and my High Skore Pro (spare ball) less than 1 inch. That seems pretty normal to me.
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

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#172651 - 11/01/12 06:19 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
FruitFly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 262
A/S/L: 29/M/Kiel, Germany
He probably means, that a high flaring ball tends to read the lane sooner/better than low flaring balls and a high axis rotation tends to skid much further.

So by purchasing high flaring balls you counteract the problem of your ball not coming back you otherwise might have.
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#172655 - 11/01/12 08:02 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1643
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Quote:
He probably means, that a high flaring ball tends to read the lane sooner/better than low flaring balls and a high axis rotation tends to skid much further.


Yep I agree. Staying behind the ball will lower your axis rotation causing all your equipment to hook a little sooner.
I have first hand experience with this one.

Quote:
. I am curious enough to experiment with trying to stay behind the ball the entire delivery to the point of release.


The next best thing to that is to get the wrist/arm into a firm desired position just before the bottom of the swing. If your wrist teeters a little at the top of the swing it shouldn't matter much as long as you can consistently recover before the bottom. If you're working the inside of the ball then it would matter.


Be careful what you wish for Joe. smile My game changed quite a bit this year after learning how to stay behind the ball much better. I'm affected more by dry lanes and had to get comfortable playing more out-and-in. My average took a dip but I'm starting to recover.
_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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#172656 - 11/01/12 08:42 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: VFF57]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: VFF57
Be careful what you wish for Joe. smile

I agree. Don't mess with success. You have 9 300's. I could live 9 lives and not have a single 300.

If you have to make changes, I'd recommend you study PDW. His shot comes closest to yours. Of course, to do his shot you'd have to lose the wrist brace....


_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
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"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#172657 - 11/01/12 08:56 AM Re: Joe Bowler - 10/30/2012 [Re: Joe Bowler]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Actualy, I was referring to another thread where Joe was talking about a 7-9 degree entry angle. IMO, the ball will only do that with extreme side rotation at release, and a high flare ball to begin with. A low flaring ball would slide longer and may not recover. So, the release matches the flare, in Joe's case.

I would tend to think if Joe stayed more behind the ball, the ball may flatten at the turn.

I have come to the conclusion that certain balls maximize their performance with different releases. And, many bowlers don't see the full effect of a ball by using the wrong release. The degree of rotation of the hand has an impact on the ball rotation and flare potential.

I won't make a judgement as to which side rotation is better. I would just suggest to stick with one method and don't deviate. That would limit the types of balls that a bowler can use to a less confusing decision.

I have settled on a specific core type and the ball RG and diff as my decision criteria for a new ball.
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