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#166843 - 05/12/12 11:50 PM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Pingu44]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: Pingu44
Belmo = no thumb, Palermaa = no thumb, Smallwood = half a thumb that does nothing and so is basically a thumbless action, Daugherty = no thumb, Valenta = no thumb. All people that make a living bowling. Good enough for me. The only reason people are going nuts for two handers is Belmo and Osku. The principle is the same in that you can create more revs. As far as slow ball speed, you can overcome that, I know I have. Longer approach, faster feet, problem solved.


All but Daughtery use the two handed technique which is different then no thumb bowling, which is why I encouraged the OP to try it. Adding the second hand allows more adjustments to be made which makes it much easier to attack the lanes in different ways and to have a variety of options available. It also helps to keep the bowler balanced which is key for repeating shots.

You can call that closed minded, I call it physics, but hey whatever everyone is entitled to their own opinion.



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#166849 - 05/13/12 05:17 AM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: B-Hammer]
Pingu44 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 10/22/11
Posts: 50
A/S/L: 25/m/Netherlands (used to be E...
Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
All but Daughtery use the two handed technique which is different then no thumb bowling, which is why I encouraged the OP to try it. Adding the second hand allows more adjustments to be made which makes it much easier to attack the lanes in different ways and to have a variety of options available. It also helps to keep the bowler balanced which is key for repeating shots.

You can call that closed minded, I call it physics, but hey whatever everyone is entitled to their own opinion.


Smallwood doesn't bowl two handed last I saw, but you missed the point anyway. Those are five bowlers who don't bowl in a conventional fashion and I would argue are worlds better than anyone you'll find on this board. Belmo's told the story a million times about how he was told to put his thumb in because that's the 'right' way to do it - he ignored it and look where he is now. Maybe people will eventually come to realise that, as with many things in life, results are more important than method. I score higher and I have more fun with my thumb out than I do in; so take a guess how I'm going to bowl next time I'm out there?

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#166850 - 05/13/12 05:32 AM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Twofingertramp]
Pingu44 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 10/22/11
Posts: 50
A/S/L: 25/m/Netherlands (used to be E...
Hell, if you want to carry it on, Wes Malott stares at his toes as he releases the ball, that sure as hell seems like the 'wrong' way to do it - now, tell me, how many 300s has that dude bowled on TV? The right way is whatever scores, the wrong way is whatever doesn't. That's it. Help people improve what they're working with rather than jumping straight to the detonator and telling them to blow it up and start over.

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#166851 - 05/13/12 07:31 AM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Twofingertramp]
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 882
A/S/L: 45 m
Whilst I am two handed bowler, I spent 2 yrs bowling one handed thumbless.
I may offer some advice, please feel free to take it or leave it.. So, from your little video mate, you are almost dropping ball down onto lane, and u are very upright, which is fine (if u are 75 yr plus) but u should be able to get lower, and hit that target of yours perhaps at the arrows?? Which brings me to my 2 main question.. 1. Are u hitting your target? if not, forget about everything else, and work at that aspect.. If u aren't accurate at 15ft, then forget about it at 60ft!! You will remain a 160 bowler for the next decade, if u don't get onto this..
2. Does your speed fluctuate at all, meaning are u in the pocket one shot, next little high, third ball light.. You must get your speed consistant with a lot of revs.
3. (sorry another one), do u line up similar everytime u bowl, or are u taking a few practise shots and working out wheher ethe lanes will let u play.. I use to bowl against a guy, who stood almost same spot every week for league, he use to complain about the lanes and oil and everything, but he never stopped to consider that he is working against the lanes, rather than the lanes working for u!!

Bowling thumbless is exiting an a lot of fun, but it's even more fun when u are improving... If u are becoming stagnant in your bowling, then look always at your fundamentals.. Remember u have to be CONSISTANT above anything else!!

Get back to me and let me know where u are at present... I went from 160 to 185 within 2 yrs of bowling from 1 handed to 1 handed thumbless, then went to 2 handed, now 4 yrs on, loving it.. Anyway, scoring even higher, and still improving!

Additional, are u using weak equipment? U don't need anythig too strong, with your revs. Your speed look s ok...
Love to hear back mate, and all the best. Looseleftie

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#166872 - 05/14/12 02:19 AM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Pingu44]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: Pingu44
Hell, if you want to carry it on, Wes Malott stares at his toes as he releases the ball, that sure as hell seems like the 'wrong' way to do it - now, tell me, how many 300s has that dude bowled on TV? The right way is whatever scores, the wrong way is whatever doesn't. That's it. Help people improve what they're working with rather than jumping straight to the detonator and telling them to blow it up and start over.


Please try to understand, bowling thumbless is not wrong, it is just physically limited because you are missing a secondary stabilizing point which is provided either by a thumb or a second hand which is used to make adjustments. That is not an opinion it is physics. Probably the best bowler in the world at adapting to lane conditions is Belmo, using his second hand he can adjust everything even more so then a convention thumb in bowler. If he needs skid he adds in tilt, wants a sharper hook he increases his rotation, dry fronts he lofts it, low volume of oil he moves outside and drops his revs, thick oil he moves in and revs even more. All things that can be done because he can adjust how the ball comes off his hand. Without a secondary stabilizing point that just isn't possible.

That being said if you typically don't see a variety of conditions and don't need to make any adjustments then don't worry about it, who cares about adjusting to conditions that you will never see. Bowl thumbless one handed and have fun. The one thing you might need to worry about is the lanes being a little heavier or lighter then normal, in these situations just own a few different balls that give you a few different looks and do what you do best. It works for thousands of THS bowlers all over the world.


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#166879 - 05/14/12 12:22 PM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Twofingertramp]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1159
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
Smallwood keeps his left hand on the ball longer than conventional one handers, so I'd put him in a category with 2 handers, and Malott normally targets at the foul line, so technically he's not staring at his toes.

Do what feels natural. I'm 46 yrs old, and don't want to relearn how to bowl, so I'm not going to. Not that I have any animosity towards thumbless or two handed bowlers- I just don't want to put in the time to switch. I'd be at least 50 before I could get to the level I'm at now, and by then, I'd be too old to keep doing it. But that shouldn't stop anyone from developing the style they prefer.
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#166881 - 05/14/12 01:18 PM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Twofingertramp]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1380
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
And I didn't put down thumbless or call it killing kittens. laugh

Malott, as Fin mentioned, has a shorter aiming point than most of us, but I do know people who aim at the dots or even earlier. From what they told me, it's a way to get the ball rolling earlier. IDK - it never worked for me. I try to actually aim farther while crossing an arrow. . .

But to everything, there are pros and cons, and if you want to do something, you should be aware of both. Don't go blindly into something just because you want to be a rebel. I know several guys who are pretty good thumbless bowlers, but while they can string'em long and hard, I'm consistently 20 pins over them, at least in part because I can pick up a 10-pin and they can't come within a foot of them unless they screw around with a thumbless backup . . . which REALLY seems weird to me! :P

Do what you want - we recommended two-handed because it has the potential to give you some stability that thumbless CAN lack.
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#166887 - 05/14/12 04:31 PM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: Pingu44]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: Pingu44
There are people who can and will help you with thumbless bowling here.



Having an open mind to what people are (trying) to communicate to you is the key. Nobody is trying to force anyone into a style they're not comfortable with. The thing to remember is this: Long term versatility.



Originally Posted By: Pingu44
The only reason people are going nuts for two handers is Belmo and Osku. The principle is the same in that you can create more revs. As far as slow ball speed, you can overcome that, I know I have. Longer approach, faster feet, problem solved.


If i could throw like Belmo, I WOULD. But, I'm 46 and my knees have seen their better days. I work a lot, i go to leagues tired (at times) and keeping that tempo and form (like Belmo has) just isn't an option. Now, you guys are in your twenties and have that ability. What i'm saying is there will be a day you're not in your twenties and that may not be that far off. If you want to be good, if you want to be a bowler who is around for the long term, you will definately want to consider being more versatile and that will involve using your thumb.

Everyone begins to learn bowling differently and your choice to begin thumbless isn't a problem to anyone but don't stop learning and understanding techniques just because you feel you have a handle on it. Bowling is complex, the more versatile a bowler can get the better.
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#166908 - 05/15/12 11:27 AM Re: Thumbless trouble [Re: metguy]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1380
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: metguy
If i could throw like Belmo, I WOULD. But, I'm 46 and my knees have seen their better days. I work a lot, i go to leagues tired (at times) and keeping that tempo and form (like Belmo has) just isn't an option.

Amen, bro. I'm 45 and my knees and back are reminding me of my stupidity while I was a kid. . . we were immortal while we were in our 20s. . . sigh, no longer. laugh
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