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#165280 - 04/01/12 11:13 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style ***** [Re: KahKiat]
nord Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 361
A/S/L: 40/M/Santee/CA
I know it has been some time since this post was placed but I have some new data that is puzzling.
I took my 11 pound Blue-Dot down to some pretty oily lanes the other day.
Just for kicks i wanted to revisit the deflection shot.
I stood with my right foot on the first dot on the right.
I was trying to throw the ball fast, 14mph (for me!)over board 9 with a straight fast angle to the 1-3.
I used a mild semi-roller release.
The ball slid/rolled all the way.
If it hit the 1-3 high and tight then I got a strike, a light hit produced splits and other undesirable leaves.
Now here is the interesting part.
Occasionally i would miss my board to the left and roll over board 12.
This would cause a high tight 1-2 pocket hit.
Every hit on the 1-2 produced a dramatic power strike with pins flying and the 6 pin shooting to the side wall and flying back taking out the ten with its whole body mass rather than just the classic tap out that you get from a 1-3 pocket hit.
I have never stuck so hard.
I decided to keep at the 1-3 pocket and as long as i hit high and tight and sometimes a little light, i got those killer strikes.
I was so into this that I forgot to see how this was happening.
My thought is this effect was like a spinner ball strike.
The ball was coming at a right to left angle with a right to left spin and hitting the left side of the rack.
This would cause the ball to slide fast down the left side of the rack deflecting all the pins into the others.
This is only a guess of course.
Thoughts?
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#165882 - 04/14/12 11:42 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
svengali Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 227
A/S/L: 30/M/Mass
Thanks for this thread. I had basically given up on ten pin bowling until I learned about this style. I had tried ten pin bowling in the past, but when I learned I would need to use a 14 lb ball to have any kind of performance (as a hook bowler), I got discouraged and stopped bowling ten pin for a few years. I'm actually a candlepin bowler so I'm used to using a ball that weighs less than 3 pounds. I'm also used to throwing the ball straight.

I've been bowling this style for the last two months using 11 and 12 lb balls and averaging about 175 in open play with a high game of 226. I'm kind of wondering the same thing nord is since I find myself making several adjustments per session. I'm a left handed bowler myself and my preference is to start on the left of the lane and go into the 1-2 pocket. Sometimes I can get strikes with it, but other times it results in 5-9 leaves. I also find that if I roll it right down the middle with enough spin I can get a strike, although it can also leave the big 4, so I try not to do that. But I do have trouble when I position myself either in the middle of the lane or on the right side of the lane getting the ball to go to the left and back into the 1-2 pocket. Are there any left handed bowlers who use this style that can give me some advice?

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#165885 - 04/15/12 12:44 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
Richie V. Offline
Virtual League Secretary,
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Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 3403
A/S/L: 47/M/Brockton, MA
Hi svengali...wondering what part of MA you're in, since I'm in Brockton (and am on my association's board). smile

From what I've seen of the Asian bowlers using this style in events like the world championships, they actually get better results than hook bowlers on what us hook bowlers call "Brooklyn" hits (for you, it would be the 1-3 pocket) because of the deflection of the ball. They get their share of strikes in the "normal" pocket, but if they cross over into the other pocket, they don't have to worry as much as a hook bowler.


Edited by Richie V. (04/15/12 12:46 AM)
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#165891 - 04/15/12 11:34 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: nord]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: nord
....I took my 11 pound Blue-Dot.... to revisit the deflection shot.
I stood with my right foot on the first dot... throw the ball fast,...with a straight fast angle to the 1-3.
I used a mild semi-roller release.

Now there's your problem. You shoulda been throwing a spinner.

Originally Posted By: nord
....Now here is the interesting part.
Occasionally i would miss my board to the left and ... a high tight 1-2 pocket hit....
I have never stuck so hard.
I decided to keep at the 1-3 pocket and as long as i hit high and tight and sometimes a little light, i got those killer strikes.

Thoughts?

The classic Spinner strike shot. I've often wondered if I could get the same action without the spin, since sometimes I would not get a spin on it and the pin action would seem o be the same.

Originally Posted By: svengali
Thanks for this thread.

Double down on that, bro'. Spinning is my lost love.

Originally Posted By: svengali
...But I do have trouble when I position myself either in the middle of the lane or on the far side of the lane...can give me some advice?

When I used to spin, I could stand on the far side of the lane and aim at the headpin or stand on the extreme my side of the lane and aim at the headpin. If it went a board left, it hit 1-2., and if it went a board right, it hit 1-3. It was great either way, but I found that my best shot was standing on my side of the lane as far to the outside as possible, throwing straight at the chosen pocket (left or right - they both worked). The brooklyn strikes were deadly and awesome, though.

As I've said many times, back in the day if I threw my hook shot into the gutter, I'd pick up my (lighter) spare ball and make a spare out of it with a spinner.

(for those who are new, I don't throw this shot any more becasue it requires the wrist to be bent back (limp), and my carpal tunnel nerves object strongly to that. I used to call it the Texas Twister, and I performed it by bringing my fingers around only halfway. The usual method is to end up with the fingers aiming at the target an the thumb pointing at the body, but I would end with the thumb pointing sideways and the fingers on the outside. It seemed to get just as much spin and prevented pain in my arm due to over-rotating something or other. I would grip the ball and release my grip just as my arm became vertical. The ball would fall off the thumb and fingers simultaneously. )


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#165937 - 04/16/12 09:32 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
KahKiat Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 212
A/S/L: Male, Singapore
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#166047 - 04/18/12 07:02 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: 10PinGaloot]
svengali Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 227
A/S/L: 30/M/Mass
Originally Posted By: Richie V.
Hi svengali...wondering what part of MA you're in, since I'm in Brockton (and am on my association's board). smile

I'm actually north of Boston.

Quote:
From what I've seen of the Asian bowlers using this style in events like the world championships, they actually get better results than hook bowlers on what us hook bowlers call "Brooklyn" hits (for you, it would be the 1-3 pocket) because of the deflection of the ball. They get their share of strikes in the "normal" pocket, but if they cross over into the other pocket, they don't have to worry as much as a hook bowler.




Quote:
When I used to spin, I could stand on the far side of the lane and aim at the headpin or stand on the extreme my side of the lane and aim at the headpin. If it went a board left, it hit 1-2., and if it went a board right, it hit 1-3. It was great either way, but I found that my best shot was standing on my side of the lane as far to the outside as possible, throwing straight at the chosen pocket (left or right - they both worked). The brooklyn strikes were deadly and awesome, though.


Thanks for this advice. I think I'm going to keep standing on the left side of the lane and maybe play over 3rd arrow, but I should probably try to just aim toward the headpin. Lately I've been missing the headpin quite a bit.
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#166155 - 04/21/12 11:44 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
KahKiat Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 212
A/S/L: Male, Singapore
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#166776 - 05/10/12 12:20 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
svengali Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 227
A/S/L: 30/M/Mass
Bowled 4 games today and had a pretty good session. 761 overall, high game of 205 and low game of 180. Did not have more than 2 strikes in a row at any point however and left a lot of 7 pins (fortunately I made every single one, I had been struggling in this area until recently). I was standing on the left side and playing over the 2nd arrow or so and it seemed on a lot of my shots the ball would have a domino effect where the pins sort of fell backward. Had a lot of 9 pin drops, sometimes leaving the 5 or 10 pin instead of the 7. Maybe I'll take a video of it next time, did not mimic any of the pin reaction I've seen in the other spinner videos so far. I was alternating between a 12 lb house ball and an old amflite ball I picked up fwiw. I had previously thought the amflite ball was 12 lbs, but the house ball felt lighter so it could be 12.5 or even 13 lbs. Had about the same pin reaction with both balls, was throwing the house ball at about 18.8 mph, and the amflite ball about 2 mph slower (the center I was bowling at tracks ball speed).

Starting a league in two weeks, can't wait. It will be on a house pattern so I'm sure there will be some reactive ball hotshots there averaging 220-240, but if I can average 190 or even 180 getting my feet wet I'll take it. My goal is to eventually move over to a sport league with this style.
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Make sure you bowl in a sanctioned league.

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#166778 - 05/10/12 02:09 AM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: KahKiat]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1389
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
svengali, excellent! I'd love to see a video.

What do you think would happen if you decreased the speed a little? Hook bowlers do that to give the ball time to react to the lane. A spinner might try it to give the ball time to interact with the pins.

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#166862 - 05/13/12 02:40 PM Re: Bowling - Spinner/Helicopter/UFO Style [Re: svengali]
MikeHL Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 763
A/S/L: 34/M/da U.P. of Michigan, eh
Originally Posted By: svengali
I'm actually a candlepin bowler so I'm used to using a ball that weighs less than 3 pounds. I'm also used to throwing the ball straight.

Hey svengali. Sorry I missed your posts, as I haven't been around here too often lately. It's good to see a fellow Mass.-hole around here. heh. I'm from a few miles north of Springfield...bowled candlepin all my life until 1999, then didn't set foot in a bowling center for 10 years, during which time I moved to Michigan.

Interesting that you may be trying the helicopter style...I've considered it at times. I also can relate to abandoning tenpin altogether -- the thought has occurred to me more than once as the physical game that any hook player needs flies so directly in the face of what I know how to do that I have an immensely difficult time picking up on it. I average in tenpin about what you do, and I just don't string strikes. Ever.

Anyway, glad to see you here. smile
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