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#163194 - 02/18/12 11:59 AM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
Lumpytire Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 70
A/S/L: 29/M/AZ
A video would make this easier, but if you are using a 5 step approach and starting the pushaway on the first step I would venture to say that your armswing is so far head of the timing that your body wants that your arm would muscle the swing a bit to slow down the arm swing and get your body closer to in time. This muscling of the ball would slow down the speed of your arm swing (while keeping it low) and cause for the lower ball speed.
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#163208 - 02/18/12 07:09 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: TidalKnight
And I am using a free ball swing/pendulum but the backswing is so low and my ball speed is so slow. Usually around 14mph

I throw 14 on the radar. What's wrong with that?

If you want to throw it faster, lift it up higher in the pushaway and let it drop into the swing from there. I lift with my non-ball hand, so no muscles are introduced. It doesn't seem to change my timing any...

I can't help with timing. It seems to me to be something that just happens as you get better.....

Swingset's description of that particular style really opens my eyes. Others, including Coach Jim, have commented about this in the past and it never made sense until now. Just remember to square your shoulders at the line by pulling the balance arm back at the release point....


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#163209 - 02/18/12 07:40 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
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Originally Posted By: TidalKnight
...Maybe 14 lbs just isn't carrying well enough...

All things being equal, a 16 pounder will hit harder.

All things aren't equal, though.

My 14 pounder carries just as well as my 16 pounders, because I can put enough revs on it to hit the pocket at the steeper angle that's needed due to the deflection.

That being said, I prefer 15 pounds because it's more versatile. The lighter ball is limited to certain types of shot that can't be used, for instance, on a dry lane or a down and in shot. For me, 15 is the right weight. YRMV.


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"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
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"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#163210 - 02/18/12 07:47 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
Lumpytire Offline
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Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 70
A/S/L: 29/M/AZ
In my personal opinion 14 mph on the radar is just fine as 10pin said. The thing you have to remember about the radar is dependent on the position of the radar (when it picks up your speed) it can be as much as 2-3 mph slower than your ball speed off of your hand if the speed is read at the break point. The trick is matching your ball speed with your rev rate and playing the proper portion of the lane.
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#163217 - 02/18/12 11:22 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
PowerBall Offline
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Registered: 10/15/11
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A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
I do have videos I just have to edit them. I posted one a few months back and some might remember how bad I was lol.. using a house ball and what not..
Night and day difference so I'm not too unhappy about where I am.

I've been trying to emulate Norm Duke and have his DVD as well so I'm learning off of that.

About revs.. I'm finally learning how to release (and how it's not about turning the hand/wrist.. it's about lifting with the fingers)... but I have no idea how high my rev rate is OR if I'm doing it at the right angle (if the rotation is is rolling towards the pins that's not good... and it doesn't look like I'm getting too much roll to a direction, how do I tell?)

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#163218 - 02/18/12 11:37 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: 10PinGaloot]
PowerBall Offline
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Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
Originally Posted By: TidalKnight
...Maybe 14 lbs just isn't carrying well enough...

All things being equal, a 16 pounder will hit harder.

All things aren't equal, though.

My 14 pounder carries just as well as my 16 pounders, because I can put enough revs on it to hit the pocket at the steeper angle that's needed due to the deflection.

That being said, I prefer 15 pounds because it's more versatile. The lighter ball is limited to certain types of shot that can't be used, for instance, on a dry lane or a down and in shot. For me, 15 is the right weight. YRMV.

The reason I got a 14 was because I was used to house balls... now the weight of the ball seems to not be something I feel at all..

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#163255 - 02/19/12 04:41 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
You want your arm and foot to be in time. By the time your first step (or second if you use a 5-step or whatever) compresses on the ground you want the ball to start on its way into the backswing. Simply starting the ball on the first step isn't going to cut it.





I'll let Mr. Barnes explain it better.

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#163256 - 02/19/12 04:50 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
PowerBall Offline
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Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Yeah, Norm Duke suggested that maybe push away on the first (of five) step and then actually transfer the ball weight to the right hand and be in the swing by the time the second step hits the floor. That might work for me.

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#163276 - 02/19/12 06:53 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Yeah that's what I do. I transfer the weight on the first well not step, kind of slide movement. Then get into my pushaway, which is supposed to be a swinging hinge but I haven't video taped myself in a while so I don't know if I'm still doing it, LOL. By the time my second step is down I'm going into the backswing.
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#163370 - 02/21/12 03:05 PM Re: So frustrated.. low ball speed, low backswing.. [Re: PowerBall]
gohuskies Offline
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Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 116
A/S/L: 55/M/Denver, CO
Fast feet and late timing and a tendency to being speed dominant have been major challenges for me, but I really benefited from a coaching lesson I took last year at USBC Nationals with Mike Jasnau. During that single 90 minute session with video & CATS analysis, he really opened my eyes to what I needed to do to match up footwork, free armswing, speed and release. I've worked diligently over the past year with focus on these fundamentals, and I've gotten to the point where all the pieces have come together. I'm arriving at the line with much improved timing which has naturally increased my ball speed and rev rate. The other aspect which has helped immensely is focusing on keeping my hand from coming around the ball and topping the release.

I'm not where I feel I've become the bowler I want to be, but I am definitely way closer & more consistent in all phases of the game. Do you have a coach you can work with who uses CATS and video analysis? If not, I would highly recommend finding one who could help you work on solidifying your game. Or if you ever make it to Reno, you could set up a lesson with Mr. Jasnau. It did cost some $$, but it was a very worthwhile investment which is still literally paying dividends back to me now.

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