I accept John Jowdy's definition. And by the way, my coach says I am still planting my foot, I still have late timing, and I'm still muscling the ball significantly--in spite of my belief that I had seriously reduced those factors. It's funny how you can be convinced of something until someone points out the truth. But my shot feels smoother and more relaxed, and my steps are slower, and my scores are better. I guess it just takes a lot more work to change styles than I thought, but I don't want to be a stroker at this point anyway and I've taken some of the strain off my body by relaxing my swing a bit. I guess I have to settle for the label of "cranker" applied to myself.

Anyway, good response, Smooth Stroker. Who on this forum would dispute John Jowdy's definition? Certainly not me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">
And by the way, my coach says I am still planting my foot, I still have late timing, and I'm still muscling the ball significantly--in spite of my belief that I had seriously reduced those factors.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA,TAHOMA">A lot of people who muscle the ball don't think that they do. I used to swear that I had a relaxed arm swing only to find out that I hold the ball and guide it down in the downswing. I also suffer from trying to help the ball a little to early (before the ball gets past my hip).

Try this some time:

When you set up, put all of the ball weight in your off hand and then make sure that every muscle in your bowling arm is relazed. Wiggle your shoulder and arm to make sure you're not holding any tension in them. You do have to keep a little firmness in your wrist though.

Then push the ball away with your off hand without using the muscles in your bowling arm. Then let it fall without using the muscles in your bowling arm. Let it swing while maintaing that loose arm and without engaging your bowling arm muscles. This whole time all you're really going to want to concentrate on is not using any arm muscles. Just let your arm swing dead.

It's probably going to feel pretty wierd, but it's going to give you a good idea of just how much you're still muscling the ball. It will also help to point out your timing issues.

But this is probably going to be a lot closer to a free armswing than you havee now. Now, the thing to add after this is a little use of muscle as you come through the ball, but that happens as the ball gets to your ankle. Doing this to early will cause bad things to happen.

More than likely though, you're going to not like the way this feels because there are a lot of other things that have to be happening as well, like timing, a body position that give you leverege, etc.

And the reason why a lot of beginning bowlers like to plant and chuck is because they can get those 180 results without having to work at it. Developing all the stuff I mentioned above takes time and work.

To me, a cranker is someone with a (usually) high backswing, although not always, who through late timing and muscling the release, creates a surplus of revs. Whilst less consistent than strokers or tweeners, we are hard to beat when playing in conditions which match the style due to the huge hook and power. We tend to end up with knee problems (due to the plant and pull) and damaged wrists and/or arms due to the punch at the end. That said, I've seen some very smooth bowlers who consider themselves crankers, and also some bowlers with small backswings who would call themselves crankers due to the huge force they put into it.

I would just say anybody can crank it or stoke it depending on the release and ball revs. I dont believe it has anything to do with the height of the backswing. Bob Vespi didnt have a high backswing at all and he was considered a cranker. Steve Hoskins was a cranker, who moved when the lanes made him. He would still crank the ball but was playing right up the 10 board. Basically put, IMO, if the release is non-muscled then I'd say you're strokin it, a little muscle is a tweener, and lots of muscle and power is a cranker. We will all have our own interpretations on the definition of these three.

I use to think I was a cranker, but with all the comments above, I feel im a power stroker, like pete, because my wrist is hardly cupped if any. I just simply drill my bowling balls strong to keep the ball path of crankers but without the wear and tear, which has made me more accurate too. something to think about..

OK the video is a cranker release. Slow it down and look at the elbow and how he pushes the ball in into the lane..
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/VCranker.Htm

Now these pics are of a power stroker.. Notice how the arm stays straight in the swing.. He is not pushing the ball to the lane..

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/tTiming.Htm

And Tommy Jones @ Pete Weber @ Patrik Allen are not Crankers. They are Power stroker players..


Richard

I don't know, Randy Pederson himself has called Tommy Jones and Michael Fagan both young crankers. Tommy Jones bends his arm during the downswing and uncoils the arm wrist and unloads at the bottom of the swing. He also has a very high backswing. His delivery actually looks a lot like the guy in your own video. I don't really care one way or the other, Patrick and Pete I agree with you, Tommy, I'm not so sure. What would you call Michael Fagan? Whatever he is, Tommy is too.