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#157709 - 11/06/11 12:35 AM average "floor"
JW123 Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 438
A/S/L: 45/M/NJ
Everybody who has been in a league knows the concept of an average "cap" which exists to prevent "stacking" a team with all high-average bowlers and totally dominating.

What I haven't seen, and think really should exist, is an average "floor" in leagues as well. I'm not talking about a minimum average of 170 for handicapping, because that is going to keep a 140 average bowler from ever joining a league, and what our sport doesn't need is people being discouraged from getting involved.

Rather, leagues should consider putting in an average floor for the teams, perhaps 200 below the cap in a 4-person league. In one of my leagues, four of the six worst bowlers in the league decided to bowl together as a team. It's led to absurd situations. A few weeks ago, they bowled the first place team, and (this is a 90% handicap league) they were spotted 315 pins per game. That's right, 315 pins! It's like bowling 4 against 6 and a half. Basically, the top team was forced to make up 31 marks in a four-person game. The problem with a team like this is if they luck out and get a couple of doubles over the course of a game, it could be all she wrote. If one of them manages to shoot a 160, it's game over.

I have no problem with these four being in the league. I just think they'd be better served if they split up and each of them became a lead-off bowler with three mid to upper average bowlers on different teams. But when you have a team of four with a combined average in the 430s, it skews everything.

Last week in my doubles league, the team I was matched up against had a combined average that was 20 pins less than my average. My partner is in the 130 range and we were spotting this team 128 pins (effectively giving them a "third bowler" with a score that is better than either of their high games this season). When your strategy becomes "you beat the spot and I'll try to beat their scratch total" you know you're entering the bowling twilight zone. I don't understand why two bowlers who average in the 70s should be teamed up in a doubles league where more than half the bowlers are 175-plus.
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#157712 - 11/06/11 01:03 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: JW123
A few weeks ago, they bowled the first place team, and (this is a 90% handicap league) they were spotted 315 pins per game. That's right, 315 pins!


LOL, and they say HIGH average bowlers intimidate. League isn't supposed to be easy. You push them and they push you, sounds about right if you don't allow yourself to get rattled by a few strikes.
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#157714 - 11/06/11 02:37 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Haha, Welcome to handicap bowling. We gave up 290 a few weeks ago. It was a night when one of them decided to bowl his highest series ever. We took gas.

In another league, we do have a low end cap. No handicap is figured below 165.
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#157723 - 11/06/11 08:44 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Because then many bowlers wouldn't bowl. Many want to bowl with friends or family and sometimes none of them have an average above 150. Or you have bowlers that want to bowl in a league but have no team and are placed with a team that needs a bowler, who often is a lower average team that doesn't know enough bowlers that would actually bowl with them. Sometimes whole teams are made up of single bowlers. Unless you have a league that is draft style, or is specifically catered as a highly competitive league with the minimum average, a minimum cap would kill many leagues.

I was actually in a situation like this last night. My 5 person mixed league team has a team average in the mid-780s currently. We have three bowlers of mid-150s or lower, two of them relative newbies and the third is a straight bowler with accuracy issues. We bowled against a team last night with a team average of around 1050. This is an 80% of the difference of team average league and we were getting 228 pins. Despite that, one bowler being 30 pins over average each game, and usually having two or three bowlers nearly 20 pins over average each game we didn't win any points. There were no blow outs and the games were still usually tight by the tenth frame even though we knew that the outcome would probably be halfway through the tenth frame. The other team was had the advantage. They could repeat shots, left less splits and usually covered most of the makeable leaves. They normally had a couple of bowlers over average per a game and the rest close to average while we had some that were way under average sometimes by nearly 40 pins (raises hand). We basically had another bowler and half (given the individual averages of my team) and still couldn't take a game. For just as many times as the low average team takes all or most of the points, the high average teams can and often do take most or all of them.
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#157728 - 11/06/11 09:48 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
In our one league, we gave up so much cap because they have a vacant bowler at 120 and 99 pins cap, due to our 90%-230 rule. The large number was intimidating, but there was no way a vacant bowler would ever exceed 120.

My average and cap puts me at 228. So I should have beaten the vacant every game.
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#157738 - 11/06/11 01:05 PM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
champ Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/30/10
Posts: 2147
A/S/L: 32/M/AZ
My team is the second highest average team in our 20 team match point league. Our average is just over 800 for four people, while there are five or six teams in the mid 500s. I have one team mate who gets so worked up about giving up 250-300 pins when we bowl those teams, that he completely shuts down. He'll whine about it two weeks in advance, and he's convinced that every 150 average is a sandbagger. He says, "we have no chance to win, we always lose aginst them." The reason we alsways lose is because he always 100 pins under average. You just have to not look at the numbers. Bowl. At the end, it will all work itself out.
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#157774 - 11/07/11 10:11 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
Doogie Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 356
A/S/L: 37/M/Lincoln, NE
My mixed leauge has a team handicap floor. 700 for a team of 5 is the floor. Our team with the regulars has a team average of about 715. If we happen to have a sub for one of our bowlers whose average is 190 we will fall below that down to 660 range. The nights that we have bowled with this we have still won some games and occasionally all 4.

This is the first year of bowling on this leauge and with this team together and at first I laughed at the 700 pin floor thinking that that is a 140 average per person who would actually fall below that. When I realized that we would I assumed that we woud most likley just be giving away games those nights but have been pleasantly suprised in how we have fared those nights.
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#157781 - 11/07/11 11:48 AM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
mmalsed Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 1382
A/S/L: 43/M/Riverside, CA
Originally Posted By: JW123
Rather, leagues should consider putting in an average floor for the teams, perhaps 200 below the cap in a 4-person league. In one of my leagues, four of the six worst bowlers in the league decided to bowl together as a team. It's led to absurd situations. A few weeks ago, they bowled the first place team, and (this is a 90% handicap league) they were spotted 315 pins per game. That's right, 315 pins! It's like bowling 4 against 6 and a half. Basically, the top team was forced to make up 31 marks in a four-person game. The problem with a team like this is if they luck out and get a couple of doubles over the course of a game, it could be all she wrote. If one of them manages to shoot a 160, it's game over.

I have no problem with these four being in the league. I just think they'd be better served if they split up and each of them became a lead-off bowler with three mid to upper average bowlers on different teams. But when you have a team of four with a combined average in the 430s, it skews everything.

Last week in my doubles league, the team I was matched up against had a combined average that was 20 pins less than my average. My partner is in the 130 range and we were spotting this team 128 pins (effectively giving them a "third bowler" with a score that is better than either of their high games this season). When your strategy becomes "you beat the spot and I'll try to beat their scratch total" you know you're entering the bowling twilight zone. I don't understand why two bowlers who average in the 70s should be teamed up in a doubles league where more than half the bowlers are 175-plus.


I've been there, JW. We have a team (5 person teams) that we give almost 400 pins to. FOUR HUNDRED. It's insane - but they are family, GF/BF, etc. so they don't want to switch. Thankfully it's just a "fun" league so no huge deal - the trophy is literally 2" tall.

It is frustrating, though. All it take is one or two of them to get a couple of marks and we're done.

I'm with you - I think leagues should have a "range" for their teams.
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#157812 - 11/07/11 07:18 PM Re: average "floor" [Re: JW123]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 871
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
In junior leagues ha-way-back-when, we used to spot tons of teams as many as 300 pins. On those days, we were usually in arrears until the 10th when we overtook them and won the match. They get all those pins because they need them. LoL

When we kept score manually back then, we had a convenient way to keep track of who was ahead by counting marks and noting the total at the bottom of the sheet. The current electronic systems are all lacking in this sort of system...
granted, once you figure out each system's quirks it is not difficult to keep track, but they are all different...sigh...

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