BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#156642 - 10/18/11 04:51 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: champ]
PowerBall Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Originally Posted By: champ
On top of what has already been mentioned, it looks like you are throwing an 8 pound ball. I could be wrong, but you certainly are moving it around like a toy. You need a ball that is heavy enough to control the swing. For most men that is 15 or 16 pounds.


Actually it's a 14lb houseball but thanks for the ego boost lol.

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#156643 - 10/18/11 05:07 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: PowerBall]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Originally Posted By: JW123
Way too much upper body movement during your approach, which is likely due to a muscled swing. The shoulders should never rotate to the extent that yours are.

You're always starting up pretty square to the foul line, which is fine. But by the time you get to the top of your backswing, you've turned your upper body to the point that your shoulders are out of line (your left shoulder is well in front of your right shoulder so your upper body is facing right), and you're pulling the ball behind your body.



Have you ever watched the pros? Most of them open the shoulders up like that, but the biggest difference is they have some body tilt and lean as well as have the non-ball hand/shoulder pointed down lane. It's also the modern bowling style and when executed correctly gives better leverage at the line and a straight swing plain. Like anything else it takes work. So to say you should never rotate the shoulders like that is completely off base.

I do agree there are plenty of problems with the swing plane though, again a lot of other things that until he gets a ball drilled up that is correctly fitted is hard to fix.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

Top
#156644 - 10/18/11 05:19 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
eclark53520 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 12/01/08
Posts: 87
A/S/L: 22/m/wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio
Originally Posted By: JW123
Way too much upper body movement during your approach, which is likely due to a muscled swing. The shoulders should never rotate to the extent that yours are.

You're always starting up pretty square to the foul line, which is fine. But by the time you get to the top of your backswing, you've turned your upper body to the point that your shoulders are out of line (your left shoulder is well in front of your right shoulder so your upper body is facing right), and you're pulling the ball behind your body.



Have you ever watched the pros? Most of them open the shoulders up like that, but the biggest difference is they have some body tilt and lean as well as have the non-ball hand/shoulder pointed down lane. It's also the modern bowling style and when executed correctly gives better leverage at the line and a straight swing plain. Like anything else it takes work. So to say you should never rotate the shoulders like that is completely off base.

I do agree there are plenty of problems with the swing plane though, again a lot of other things that until he gets a ball drilled up that is correctly fitted is hard to fix.


I disagree that telling him to keep the shoulders square is off base. Teaching a solid, no frills swing to new bowlers is(IMO) a good idea. Once they have a basic swing, they can then start exploring more of the 'modern' ideas of the swing.

Sort of a crawl before you walk approach. I don't like comparing 'pro' swings when attempting to guide new bowlers. Pro's are there after many years of practice. Unfortunately we never get to see the full progression, only the end point.

_________________________
HG: 267
HS: 698

Taboo blue/silver
Black Widow Pearl
Taboo Spare

Top
#156645 - 10/18/11 05:23 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: JW123]
PowerBall Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Originally Posted By: JW123
Way too much upper body movement during your approach, which is likely due to a muscled swing. The shoulders should never rotate to the extent that yours are.

You're always starting up pretty square to the foul line, which is fine. But by the time you get to the top of your backswing, you've turned your upper body to the point that your shoulders are out of line (your left shoulder is well in front of your right shoulder so your upper body is facing right), and you're pulling the ball behind your body. Then in your downswing, sometimes you're correcting it and squaring back up (messing up your swing direction and resulting in tugging the ball) and sometimes you're keeping your shoulders in that position and missing to the right of your target. I can't clearly see the arrows on the lane, but I would estimate that your shots are crossing the arrows in a 15-board window (you're everywhere between the first and middle arrows at 15 feet), which is about 12 boards too many. If you're playing the 10 board (second arrow) you should always be crossing the area between 8 and 12, and most of your shots should be between 9 and 11. That sounds real bad, but it's not too hard to fix with some work.

Try out this drill to work on your swing direction. When you take your position on the approach, line your right shoulder directly with the second arrow and square your shoulders to the foul line like you're doing. Keep your shoulders square and swing straight, with the objective being to roll the ball over the second arrow and all the way to the 6 pin. For this drill, do NOT think things like strikes, or even pockets. This is a SWING DIRECTION and HIT YOUR MARK drill only.

Once you get that part of the game down, then you can work on things like hook and tweaking your launch angle.

You do look like you have the makings of a nice release, and once you get the new ball and relax your swing, you're likely to be really good.


Thanks, that is a really nice confidence booster!
Thanks for the tips too. I wish it was as easy as Wii bowling (I seem to have hook down in that game, I think it might translate well)..
can you explain a bit more what you were talking about with the boards? I am not familiar with boards yet in relation to pins or curve..

Top
#156646 - 10/18/11 05:24 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio



Have you ever watched the pros? Most of them open the shoulders up like that.

You're talking the crankers, i don't see WRW doing this nor do i suspect TidalKnight should at this point.



Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio

I do agree there are plenty of problems with the swing plane though, again a lot of other things that until he gets a ball drilled up that is correctly fitted is hard to fix.

While the importance of a correctly fit ball goes without saying, having a fair swing plane can be achieved muscling the ball (even with house equipment).


Edited by metguy (10/18/11 05:30 PM)
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

Top
#156648 - 10/18/11 06:21 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: metguy]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
If you actually watch WRW, you will see his right shoulder is a bit further back in the swing, Norm Duke as well. I don't know of too many that consider Chris Barnes or Pete Weber as crankers and they both do it.

My point was also that JW123 said the shoulders should never be like that, and I pointed out it was wrong to say never. Many coaches will teach the modern from the start. Why ingrain muscle memory of one sort then change it. The body tilt/lean is needed in both in order to clear the hip correctly, which is often the biggest issue for a swing wrapping too far around the back.

Sure this can be fixed with a house ball, but if the muscle has to be engaged from the beginning of the swing there is a good chance the old muscle memory will take over and the arm would try to bring the ball behind the back. There is a reason for the saying no coach can out coach bad ball fit.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

Top
#156656 - 10/18/11 11:00 PM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: PowerBall]
PowerBall Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Man, I sucked tonight. Probably worse I've done in years. It's like everytime I tried to correct a mistake I got worse. The coach pointed out things and I tried to correct and bam worse and worse. I don't know if it's the house balls or what but the ball just kept going straight but to the right constantly. I figured out how to square up my shoulders though.. but he kept telling me to aim for the arrows.. just kept me going right. What arrows should I be focusing on? Do I throw the ball AT the arrow?

Top
#156666 - 10/19/11 02:25 AM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: PowerBall]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Just relax, take a deap breath. The arrows are just a visual aid to reference on. If you are throwing at the 2nd arrow from the right gutter (most people do) and your ball keeps going right of the headpin then move your feet to the right a couple boards and aim at the 2nd arrow again.

Remember, keeping your target the same (2nd arrow) and move your feet in the direction your ball is hitting the pins. If you're hitting way to the right then move your feet way to the right but keep what you are aiming at the same. You'll pick it up pretty quickly but staying patient and relaxed will speed up the understanding of this.

Its easier to hit a point 15ft down lane then 60ft, so using the arrows helps. Keep your focus (eyes) on the arrow until your ball has rolled over it, don't look up or you will not know if you are hitting your mark (arrow) or not.
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

Top
#156672 - 10/19/11 04:18 AM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: PowerBall]
PowerBall Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 10/15/11
Posts: 169
A/S/L: 36/M/Ca
Despite bowling for years, basically EVERY part of bowling is new to me. The approach (4 step, 5 step etc), swing (pendulam vs just throwing it), sliding my right foot behind my left, wrist position, hook, arrows, blablabla basically everything is new to me. So I am constantly trying to think about every little thing each time I bowl. If I just bowl without thought I do much better.. but I want to get better and have proper form and learn how to properly bowl... does it all become natural so I don't have to think about it anymore?

Top
#156681 - 10/19/11 10:43 AM Re: Please help with my awful approach/swing [Re: PowerBall]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: TidalKnight
The approach (4 step, 5 step etc), swing (pendulam vs just throwing it), sliding my right foot behind my left, wrist position, hook, arrows, blablabla basically everything is new to me.


LOL, it can be overwelming if looking at it that way. To be able to recognize the areas you need to focus on is more then most do. I think its best to make a list, grade where you are in each area, and work to improve each individually. Try not to think "God, my game is aweful" but think "I'm improving in this area". Over the course of a season (maybe even without realizing it) those grades will improve. Its important to not get too high on the good nights and not get too low on the bad ones but remain focused on the big picture and (in time) many of these will become natural. Laugh a lot, it helps keep things in perspective that its just a game.
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

Top
Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Plugging balance holes
by BOSStull - 03/27/20 07:27 PM
Quitting my League
by BOSStull - 03/27/20 07:20 PM
2020 Nationals
by Doogie - 03/20/20 10:30 AM
This is a damned shame
by 82Boat69 - 03/17/20 07:48 PM
Belmo and the 2020 US Open
by BOSStull - 03/17/20 07:45 PM
COVID-10 and center closings
by BOSStull - 03/17/20 07:39 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2020 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.