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#153180 - 07/09/11 09:43 AM Re: All About Rev Rate ***** [Re: KahKiat]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
I think the Wes Mallot video is very interesting. One could even say "Fingers below the equator is over-rated", by itself. If you look at Malott, his is right at the equator.

I was talking with a friend of mine (a while back) about theoretically altering the equator of a ball. My agruement was just having your fingers at a position isn't enough to create serious spin or revs, its more of a total picture as far as where you start and where your fingers finially exit the ball and what that distance is. You can put on a brace and set it to cup the ball (and you will create more revs) but cupping the ball then unloading at the release will create even more revs because the distance your fingers stay in contact with the ball is longer.

From a 90 degree angle (looking at the hand position), a cupped hand will sit approximately at 6-7 o'clock and exit the ball at 9 o'clock while unloading will take it a little further to say 11 o'clock. More revs, longer overall distance spent with fingers in contact with the ball. The goal then should be 12 o'clock for maximum revs? No. You need that distance from 11-12 for the last part of the release. That i believe is where "slapping" the ball comes into play. Accellerating your followthrough only helps to maximize this slapping of the ball. Slapping can't be up behind the ball, it must be over the top of it. If you're slapping up behind the ball, then your stealing revs from peter to pay paul and there is no gain in that.

Now back to altering the equator (for the better). Lofting the ball to any degree will never get anyone the revs someone who drives through the ball will get because they have a "Flawed" equator relative to the optimal plane. Any of these video's above will show drive, not loft. Lofting is anything other than optimal (unless we're taking about dropping and thats a whole different problem). Working towards that optimal plane will maximize this area of your game.

Lets not forget working the inside of the ball. Its not only putting your fingers in a stronger position but its allowing your fingers to stay in contact with the ball a longer distance (curve being longer than a straight line from point A to point B) because you're not going in a straight line.

So, to create revs you need a longer distance with as short of a time you spend there as possible while maximizing leverage in all areas.
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
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A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#153186 - 07/09/11 04:36 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: metguy]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Your fingers might be in the ball the same amount of time, but the speed at which the fingers go from under the ball to release gives the ball it's rev rate, slower finger speed lower rev rate faster finger speed higher rev rate. Flexing the wrist as opposed to keeping the ball cupped doesn't increase the time the fingers are in the hole, as much as it increases the speed the fingers go from under the ball to out of the ball. Bending the elbow and the wrist then snapping both straight increases the rev rate even more, this is what makes two handed and no thumb bowlers have high rev rates because they can't keep the ball on their hands unless they also bend the elbow. Snapping everything straight at the end of the release is the key. My swing thought is, "Cup and extend through the bottom of the ball", this keeps everything flowing through my target instead of out or away from it.

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#153200 - 07/10/11 11:47 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: CoachJim]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
My swing thought is, "Cup and extend through the bottom of the ball", this keeps everything flowing through my target instead of out or away from it.


So, you play up behind the ball? And your thumb releasing out of the ball is automatic or do you do something there?

Unfortunately, I'm starting to realize i have huge flaws in my game but "recognition is half a glass worth".
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

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#153201 - 07/10/11 03:37 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: KahKiat]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
The thumb is the guidence system. That's why thumbless bowlers have such a hard time being consistent.

It is also easier to generate revs if you have a longer hand span. So those that are span compromised have that against us. But that doesn't mean you are unable to produce revs. Robert Smith does not have a huge hand. But if you look at some of the taller bowlers, Chris Barnes, Mika, Wes Malot, they seem to have a very effortless ability to generate revs, this is because they have long spans in addition to technique.

But its the whip like motion of coming out of the ball that helps generate revs. Arm accelleration through the release. But as has been discussed there's much more then one action that produces revs. You need stability at the line, low release point (deep knee bend), hand position, timing etc......

Erin

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#153205 - 07/10/11 05:28 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: Atochabsh]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
But as has been discussed there's much more then one action that produces revs. You need stability at the line, low release point (deep knee bend), hand position, timing etc......

Erin


Self evaluation:

1) Stability at the line -75%
2) Low release point - 50%
3) Deep knee bend - 25%
4) Hand position - 25%
5) Timing - 75%

= Lots of work to go. ~ John

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#153207 - 07/10/11 07:03 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: KahKiat]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
PBA Champion Don Genallo had one of if not the longest span ever at over 6 3/4" long and had a fairly low rev rate. He had good timing, deep knee bend, strong hand position, great balance, but no flex to he wrist, he was very stiff.

Chris Warren has one of the shortest spans and has a fairly high rev rate. It all has to do with the speed of the fingers at the release, fast fingers = high rev rate, slow fingers = low rev rate.

More snap/whip motion at the release the faster your fingers will move.

Quote:

So, you play up behind the ball? And your thumb releasing out of the ball is automatic or do you do something there?


If you are having to think about letting the ball go with your thumb, that means you are having to squeeze the thumb to hang onto the ball. Snapping your wrist/elbows/fingers straight snaps your thumb out of the ball and whips your fingers through the ball giving your more revs. If you are having to squeeze the thumb to hang onto the ball, you don't have a chance of being coordinated enough to let go of the ball at the exact time every time to be consistent. Get your grip fixed so you don't have to put a death grip on the ball.

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#153210 - 07/10/11 09:30 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: CoachJim]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
PBA Champion Don Genallo ... had a fairly low rev rate. ....

Revs are just one tool in the bowler's bag of tricks. You have to match speed, revs, ball, the path of the ball, and rotation angles to the lane conditions.
_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#153216 - 07/11/11 05:03 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: 10PinGaloot]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Revs are just one tool in the bowler's bag of tricks. You have to match speed, revs, ball, the path of the ball, and rotation angles to the lane conditions.


I did mention he was a PBA champion didn't I? You don't become a PBA champion without having something going for you even if you are a house hack in a white suit, you must be doing something right. A high rev rate isn't an advantage in bowling, it just makes strikes look more intimidating, low rev rate pba champions out number high rev rate pba champions by a lot for a reason. Reason being it is better to score good than to look good, but more people want to look good, so the way to get there is by flexing the wrist and elbow into the release and snapping it straight, that is all I'm saying.


Edited by CoachJim (07/11/11 05:04 AM)

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#153217 - 07/11/11 08:27 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: CoachJim]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
. Get your grip fixed so you don't have to put a death grip on the ball.



Looks like i'll be heading into the fall season in a slow trot. Taking all pitches out and starting fresh.



_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

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#153221 - 07/11/11 10:39 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: 10PinGaloot]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
You have to match speed, revs, ball, the path of the ball, and rotation angles to the lane conditions.
As I've said before, "there are many paths to the pocket".

This past weekend, I bought two used roller bags. Along with them came various paraphernalia and 6 balls. None of the 6 balls was strong enough for me. It turns out the owner was 85 years old, and probably had a rev rate in the hundreds on a good day (sheesh, rampant ageism from a 63 yr old!!!).

My point being that he had a wide variety of these things. To me, they all looked the same, but he was able to finesse his shot by equipment change just like anybody with a 450 rpm can change equipment to fit the lane conditions.

My point? You have to adapt to the lane conditions. To do that, you can change any one or two of several variables.

And also, if you're rev-challenged, or speed-challenged, you shouldn't be going out and buying the latest 16# honkin' hooker. It just won't work for you.


BTW - Looks like I'm about to settle on one release (the Chris Barnes release). It can adapt in rev rate, angle, speed, tilt, without any sort of finagling.

PS - How about that? a major announcement as a footnote to a post. Sheesh!
_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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