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#153234 - 07/11/11 05:03 PM Re: All About Rev Rate ***** [Re: 10PinGaloot]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
And also, if you're rev-challenged, or speed-challenged, you shouldn't be going out and buying the latest 16# honkin' hooker. It just won't work for you.


How about a "Honkin Hooker" that has a high flare. Was thinking about the Critical Theory in particular. any thoughts?
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#153239 - 07/11/11 11:05 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: metguy]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: metguy
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
And also, if you're rev-challenged, or speed-challenged, you shouldn't be going out and buying the latest 16# honkin' hooker. It just won't work for you.

How about a "Honkin Hooker" that has a high flare. Was thinking about the Critical Theory in particular. any thoughts?


rotfl
I find it hard to believe you're rev-challenged, or speed-challenged, so I think you're safe.

I love Roto-Grip, though...

_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#153240 - 07/12/11 02:05 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: CoachJim]
Skeeball Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 30
A/S/L: NJ
By snapping the elbow, wrist, and fingers at the end of the release does this put a lot of strain on the elbow? I've seen some folks bowl like this and it looks uncomfortable but they do get a heavy roll with rotation.

Can finger speed be increased any other way?

Thanks.

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#153241 - 07/12/11 03:18 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: Skeeball]
FruitFly Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 03/23/11
Posts: 262
A/S/L: 29/M/Kiel, Germany
I read a lot about how to get a higher revrate, but these modern releases dont seem to be my thing.
What I'm looking for is a release that has enough revs so that my ball wont get reflected if I do it right. Thats all.
Something like "straighter is greater".
I'm talking Ozio, Voss or Duke here. But I cant seem to find decent footage about them anywhere. Nor descriptions about their releases. (If this seems unfitting regarding this thread to you just PM me if you've got something)
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#153242 - 07/12/11 04:37 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: Skeeball]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
Can finger speed be increased any other way?


Yes, but to a less dynamic extent you can fire your arm through the follow through, but only as your thumb exits the ball in the release, any sooner and you will loft the snot out of the ball and I have said numbers of times here that having your ball come crashing down on the lane is detrimental to most lines of attack.

Norm Duke describes how to do this here in lesson 5:

http://www.nextlevelbowling.com/index.ph...&Itemid=177

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#153256 - 07/12/11 10:35 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: FruitFly]
Skeeball Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 30
A/S/L: NJ
Originally Posted By: FruitFly


But I've got another question about revs: When I watch the videos most of the pros "slap" the ball at release. I tried that, but cant seem to do it fast enough. Is there some kind of trick to it? Like "more to the side" or indeed "in a 45 degree angle through the ball"?



Can someone explain what this "slap" is? From what I gather it comes at the end of the snapping type release.

Thanks

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#153258 - 07/12/11 11:05 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: Skeeball]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: Skeeball
Originally Posted By: FruitFly


But I've got another question about revs: When I watch the videos most of the pros "slap" the ball at release. I tried that, but cant seem to do it fast enough. ...


Can someone explain what this "slap" is? From what I gather it comes at the end of the snapping type release.


I call it a top slap, and have previously described as being like when you slap a fellow's face with your glove as a challenge to a duel. What it is, though, is bending of the fingers at the first (and to a lesser extent the second) knuckle moving the hand across the top of the ball and thus imparting spin without lifting up on the ball. It takes much less effort.

After years of trying up to 20 various types of release, I have settled on this release as the only one I'll ever need. I can vary the angle from 0 to 90 degrees, control the revs, and even apply a little bit of axis tilt to it.

Here's the secret - you have three finger knuckles and one wrist. That makes 4 places that can bend and unbend. I've found that if you bend or unbend the wrist, you can then bend the fingers immediately after that (and possibly in a different direction), especially because by that time the ball is under your hand, almost ready to fall off the fingers and the ball is already spinning from the uncupping or unc0cking.

I've found that when I do this, if I cup or c0ck the ball, then I have to uncup or unc0ck before the ball gets to my slide foot, and then slap across the top of the ball by bending my fingers at the first (and to a lesser extent the second) knuckles as the ball is below my hand. If I do it too late, the bending of the fingers can actually make the ball spin backwards, back toward the bowler.

When a lower rev rate is called for, you can skip the cupping or c0cking. If you do neither, then the only spin on the ball is what happens as it falls below your hand. Then you can add a measured amount of spin with your fingers at the last split second (just as it passes the slide foot).

I call it the Chris Barnes release. Watch Chris's hand in the follow-thru and you can see the effect of his top slap.

_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#153260 - 07/13/11 12:40 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Skeeball Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 30
A/S/L: NJ
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
Originally Posted By: Skeeball
Originally Posted By: FruitFly


But I've got another question about revs: When I watch the videos most of the pros "slap" the ball at release. I tried that, but cant seem to do it fast enough. ...


Can someone explain what this "slap" is? From what I gather it comes at the end of the snapping type release.


I call it a top slap, and have previously described as being like when you slap a fellow's face with your glove as a challenge to a duel. What it is, though, is bending of the fingers at the first (and to a lesser extent the second) knuckle moving the hand across the top of the ball and thus imparting spin without lifting up on the ball. It takes much less effort.

After years of trying up to 20 various types of release, I have settled on this release as the only one I'll ever need. I can vary the angle from 0 to 90 degrees, control the revs, and even apply a little bit of axis tilt to it.

Here's the secret - you have three finger knuckles and one wrist. That makes 4 places that can bend and unbend. I've found that if you bend or unbend the wrist, you can then bend the fingers immediately after that (and possibly in a different direction), especially because by that time the ball is under your hand, almost ready to fall off the fingers and the ball is already spinning from the uncupping or unc0cking.

I've found that when I do this, if I cup or c0ck the ball, then I have to uncup or unc0ck before the ball gets to my slide foot, and then slap across the top of the ball by bending my fingers at the first (and to a lesser extent the second) knuckles as the ball is below my hand. If I do it too late, the bending of the fingers can actually make the ball spin backwards, back toward the bowler.

When a lower rev rate is called for, you can skip the cupping or c0cking. If you do neither, then the only spin on the ball is what happens as it falls below your hand. Then you can add a measured amount of spin with your fingers at the last split second (just as it passes the slide foot).

I call it the Chris Barnes release. Watch Chris's hand in the follow-thru and you can see the effect of his top slap.



Thanks much Galoot. It seems like a lot happens in a very short time. So when you slap the ball your hand physically comes over the top of the ball. Will your follow thru end up on the right side of your face? Also, is this all wrist action no forearm at all?

Thanks again.

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#153265 - 07/13/11 08:57 AM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: Skeeball]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: Skeeball
Will your follow thru end up on the right side of your face? Also, is this all wrist action no forearm at all?


It's all in the first knuckle of the fingers. If you try to "push" with your arm, then you'll push the ball off its intended trajectory. Arm is for aiming, hand is for spinning.

You can move your wrist in 4 directions plus twist it around an axis which is your arm. Wrist movement, if you do it, has to be done earlier, while the slap is done later. I generally do one then the other. It's conceivable they could overlap a little, which could give some axis tilt, for instance.

I use wrist curls to strengthen the wrist action and a hand squeezer to strengthen the finger knuckle action. Those sterngthen the finger muscles and forearm muscles. As far as bending the elbow, that's not a part of the action. The arm is swingling freely due to gravity and the wrist action is totally disconnected from the swing.

You can practice with a Bocci ball, nerf ball, or even a 12 pounder to get the idea prior to building up the muscles.

In this Chris Barnes video, it doesn't look like he's slapping the ball, but he is. His fingers are feeling the pressure as they come over the top.

_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#153303 - 07/14/11 08:10 PM Re: All About Rev Rate [Re: KahKiat]
metguy Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/12/11
Posts: 1108
A/S/L: 46/m/waverly iowa
For the first time, I can actually say i see what your saying. Never really understood it before. Keep posting those videos, we're watching. And thanks for the explanations of what we're looking at.
_________________________
SKID - HOOK - ROLL (don't forget about the roll)

This season: HG-289 HS-685
Career #'s : HG-299 HS-782

Arsonal: Heat (Pearl), 2Fast, Blue Hammer, Raptor P7, Fire Road


TRANSITIONING TO MOTIV EQUIPMENT
(CCWBRA)

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