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#152150 - 06/06/11 09:28 AM What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 882
A/S/L: 45 m
Hi,
I'm kinda confused here.. Last couple of weeks, my centre has produced an excessively oily lane, and seemingly endlessly long house pattern.. This is not anywhere near the usual...I'm of the belief of what I get, is what I bowl on.. Still, it seems such an extreme contrast to any house shot I have encountered.. I very politely enquired at the counter, and the response was "I don't know??"...Part time AMF staff no idea!!...

We had a state bowler who was pre bowling further down, and after having a chat with her, said that her usual league people would be at the counter complaining bitterly..

I'm just wondering what others views are here? I am president of my league, and the centre manager only appears to listen to its "premier" league, which bowls on another night.. Although the female bowler who I got chatting to, also bowls in that league...

I don't know as president whether it's worth taking further?!?!? It's not a case of sour grapes, I just want some clarification here..

Advice most appreciated
Looseleftie






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#152153 - 06/06/11 10:10 AM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
LeftySally Offline
Bumper Bowler

Registered: 06/05/11
Posts: 3
A/S/L: 55/female/Worcester, MA
As a league bowler in another AMF establishment, I have to agree that the premier leagues do get what they want in terms of oil patterns.

For the last few years, up until last year, our mixed league was bowling just before a very competitive men's league. The oil pattern that was being used was Sport. It messed up quite a few people in my league.

Thankfully, for my league, the men's league moved to another AMF house in the area last season, so the bowler's averages in my league are getting back to normal.

It never hurts to ask the manager of the lanes, but from my experience as a former league officer, don't get your hopes up.

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#152155 - 06/06/11 10:15 AM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
6_ball_man Offline
2X Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 871
A/S/L: 60/m/downtown churchville
Mixed emotions...you play on what is in front of you...
OTOH you ARE paying the house for something. Is there a contract with the house for this league or is this a house administrated, unsanctioned summah league? If the latter you have practically no leverage to force a change in their behavior.
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#152165 - 06/06/11 11:52 AM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
VFF57 Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Usually one person (proprietor/head mechanic) sets up the machine and to everyone else working there it's a matter of what button should be pushed for the day/event. Depending on the vintage and make of the machine that person could program in canned patterns ranging from easy to tougher from the machine vendor. If you want specific information you will need to find out who that person is.

Some houses will put out heavier oil on back to back league nights for endurance reasons. If the heavy oil is from a broken inconsistent machine that could be a problem and worth mentioning. Other than that could just be what they decided on and complaining could cause a backfire of no oil.

Personally, I'll take the the oil sounds like a nice walk in from the 5 board shot.
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#152170 - 06/06/11 01:54 PM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
I would like to be in your oil conditions.

Now in summer, the house where I play oils only twice a week.
And it is not on fixed days. SO before I go, I call the lane guy on cell phone to confirm if he laid oil that day or not.
If not it is useless to practice because it is bone dry.
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#152171 - 06/06/11 02:21 PM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
I would say, as far as leagues are concerned, as long as they put some type of pattern out I have no complaints at all. After all everyone has to bowl on the same thing so as long as it is not tearing up the equipment (which bone dry lanes do) then I am ok with it.

Hard patterns, easy patterns, long patterns, wide patterns, they are all just patterns and its still bowling. I enjoy the game so just competing in general is fun for me no matter how it turns out.
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#152172 - 06/06/11 04:22 PM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Unless the league has a contract with the center specifying a certain pattern, then it's bowl on what you get. If the center is constantly changing up the pattern, or putting down one you don't like, it's either bowl on what you get or find another center. You can complain to the management but without something to fall back on, they can do as they please.
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#152176 - 06/06/11 10:09 PM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
The premier leagues do get priority in many houses. Its kind of a center ego thing to have a high level scratch league in their center. And depending on that scratch league they want a high scoring environment or a challenge. But they want to be able to use their high performance balls and they have a lot of revs and hook in their game. So if the lanes are too dry its not condusive to them no matter the pattern. Remember.....they want to use their high performance equipment. Some are even given this equipment to be seen using it. If the pattern is too dry then scratch leagues inevitably leave.

You are president have absolutely NO control or influence over the condition. Under USBC rules your job is to check on the league finances each month and uphold other USBC rules. BUt you have nothing to do with the center. Giving USBC as an example if you are not in the US.

Erin

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#152179 - 06/07/11 03:51 AM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 882
A/S/L: 45 m
I thought hard about it speaking to manager today, as I went bowling.. I concluded that whilst others struggled, myself included, today, really focused on accuracy and consistant ball speed. Bowled better by far, It made me realise that if I can bowl well on a very long oiled drneched lanes, then the usual shot is relatively easy..

I bowl on whatever conditions are there, and it will make me a smarter and better bowler if I can work out how to play them... One thing having super clean balls (polish it before my Mon league is going to be a priority) is a must prior to league... I used different lines, different balls, at different speed, just couldn't get the ball into the hook stage, ball kept skidding..

We are combining 2 leagues into 1 by end of month, and there are many more hook bowlers/high ave bowlers coming into our league, I wonder how they are going to find it, I'm guessing they are going to hate it if this is to be our new house shot..

We do not have any contractual agreement re how our lanes are oiled, I think when we merge leagues we might include this, a reasonable and equitable house shot?? I don't know, exactly what that entails.. But a shot where u can put the ball out, and expect it more times than not to come back in, providing u aren't missing your target by more than a board or two .. Whether its 35ft -38ft oil, I truly don't know... I guess I should have some idea before trying to implement a oiling clause.. Any ideas on this????

I don't think anyone really wants to travel another 30 min to bowl league in another centre, so we bowl local..

Those "premier" leagues, man, I know it's an excellent selling point of a centre, to any prospective higher ave bowler, but they, and the rest of us, ALL still pay the same amount of money to the centre for our games.. A $20 league the centre takes 3 * $5.50 per game, and a more money orientated league $25-30, the centre takes the same 3 * $5.50......

It reminds me of Orwell's Animal Farm, where all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others, if u get my drift..
I relate that to this league.. This "premier" league has 40 bowlers, the rest of us over 650 bowlers make up the rest.. Go figure!!

Rant over with, love reading all your thoughts here guys, keep em coming.
Looseleftie

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#152183 - 06/07/11 08:15 AM Re: What to expect/what is resonable for a house shot [Re: looseleftie]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
You also have to look on the hidden money they make off the premier leagues though as well.

Scratch bowlers practice (most), and they practice a lot. Unless the center is allowing them free practice then they are getting open play money from them.

They also tend to buy drinks/snacks/alcohol while at the center (this includes practice times) so that is another way they are making some extra profits. Of course all league bowlers buy food/drinks, but scratch bowlers also practice so they are there buying drinks more often.

Next is the equipment, and whether the center makes money on this or not depends on if they own the pro-shop. Scratch bowlers tend to buy more bowling balls more often, so where some league bowlers might get a new ball every year or every other year, a scratch bowler might get 3 new balls every 6 months. Thats a huge difference as well, assuming they get some of those profits.
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