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#150134 - 04/15/11 10:54 PM injured bowler coming back question
sharnothegreat Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 162
A/S/L: 25/m/FL
hey guys so we are coming down the homestretch to finish the season and my team is in 3rd place 4 behind 2nd place. one of our bowlers who was not really a good bowler already with a 128 avg and his back is in bad shape so his back got worse and he even bowled a 75 one time (we still won that game luckily thanks to me LOL) so he stopped bowling 7-8 weeks ago. i brought in my friend whos an ok bowler but hes a recreational bowler but with handicap he does fine, and has helped us at least win some games etc etc. and now after winning 7 this past week to go into 3rd the guys wife tells my friend (not me) that the guy wants to come back and bowl. how do i stop this from happening? i mean it sounds rude but its kinda not fair to the team if he comes back and bowls not even 100 pins and makes us lose when we have a chance to maybe get into 2nd and play for 1st in the end. i know its a touchy subject but just give me some opinions on this subject thanks!
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#150137 - 04/16/11 12:25 AM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Well, the first guy is still due his percentage of the prize fund from the time that he did bowl. As team captain you can decide to let him back on the team or not. But you cannot usually have subs during position rounds and roll offs. So if this second guy has been bowling as a sub, he will not be allowed to bowl your last few weeks if the league has such a rule in place. Check your league rules. But you can always replace a bowler. What I might suggest (and this is going to be touchy) is to talk to the first guy. Explain that he is still going to get his part of the prize fund due to him (including a percentage if you guys place in the championships). You can then tell him that you will welcome him back on the team for summer or next year. If you don't want him back at all, then there's not going to be any way to keep your second guy without hurting some feelings. You, as captain, and the team need to decide what is best for the team.

How long has the second guy been filling in? Because by your numbers the first guy did bowl around 20+ weeks of the season. He should have perferance in a team spot. He helped you for 20+ weeks. Has the first guy been practicing? And is his bowling up to his leaving average? I mean if he hasn't been practicing and showing that he wants back on the team by virtue of effort, then that's a point you might want to discuss. No one knew when he left that he'd be out for 7-8 weeks, that's a long time to go and not figure out what you are going to do about a replacement.

Also lets discuss league championship. Since we have been discussing lower average bowlers, I am going to assume that its some kind of mixed handicap league that has a minimal prize fund. How much money is at stake here if you are able to go from 4th to a higher position? Is it like $10 per person? $50? Lets put a price on hurt feelings because you are going to have to do that when this all comes out in the wash. How much is it worth to each of your team members to hurt this guy's feelings? On the other hand, if you let him back on your team at this time, you are showing excellent team sportsmanship and good will. But is it worth the hurt feelings to get a league champion refridgerator magnet (I don't know if you can get from 4th to 1st at this point) and a little more money?

Don't know if I helped. But I might have brought to light some aspects of this situation that you have not considered.

ERin


Edited by Atochabsh (04/16/11 12:32 AM)

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#150179 - 04/16/11 04:54 PM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
I have to ask, is the friend just a sub? Has he been paying for the spot? Did the first bowler resign from the team/league? Without the answers to these questions and probably some others the responses can get long and complicated.

Also if you aren't the team captain then it's not your choice to make but the captain of the team. I know many teams make decisions by committee but ultimately it comes down to the team captain to make the final decision.

Whatever happens make sure those in question get the part of the prize fund for that spot that they deserve. If the friend is just a sub and not paying for the spot he shouldn't get anything.
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#150199 - 04/17/11 01:47 AM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa
Though of an option which is not only fair, but may provide a solution in your favor. If you new bowler/sub has been paying these past weeks for the injured bowler, it's not fair to kick him off team without being compensated. Tell the injured bowler that he needs to repay the new guy for every week he bowled in full. The large dolar amount may persuade him to let the new guy just finish out the season. I subbed for a guy for 1/2 a season who had emergency hip surgery and I didn't pay anything, but got no prize money which was fine by me (free bowling, hell yea). Everyone in the league agreed this was the safest way to do it. Prevents any issues with dividing up prize money at end of season.

If injured bowler decides to let new guy finish out season. Rremember injured guy left which means he forfits his right to get any prize money, but if you threw him a few bucks if there is a substatial payout that might quiet any issues afterward.
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#150201 - 04/17/11 02:36 AM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Quote:
Rremember injured guy left which means he forfits his right to get any prize money,


This is not the same as quitting a league (sanctioned league) and therefore forfeiting prize fund.

The team knew he was injured and knew he was not going to be there. Knew enough to bring on a sub rather then a replacement. At least that's the way I read the OP post.

Erin

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#150203 - 04/17/11 07:22 AM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9700
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
I'm currently in that position on Tues night. I was asked to sub on this team. And, through the Fall and early Winter, I had subbed for one bowler to the point that I had more games bowled then she did. She finally admitted that she was too sick to bowl, and I was asked to fill out the rest of the year as a regular. Which I have.

The team has divided the prize fund expected based on weeks paid by each of us. Once, she talked about coming back, and was told that I had the open spot on the team. She could be a sub if she wanted.
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#150328 - 04/18/11 07:58 PM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
sharnothegreat Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 162
A/S/L: 25/m/FL
oh boy i totatlly forgot about this thread!! ok let me try and answer some of these questions, and clear things up.

we are now in 3rd place 4 behind 2nd.

the sub i brought in was added to our team as a permanent sub because we knew the guy (john) was gonna be out for an extended period of time, so therefore he CAN play position rounds.

heres the story with the pay, my friend that joined offered to pay to play but johns wife (who is the captain cuz i didnt care when i joined the league) insisted that they keep paying so they could get the prize money so my friend said ok fine. he doesnt care about prize money or anything like that, he just wanted to come have fun with me.

i dont know if john has practiced but i highly doubt it, when he comes to pick up his wife he can barely walk and hes got a cane now.

in reference to the summer league or any other league, they both are moving out of state so we wont be bowling with them anymore (me and my dad just met up with them because we had 2 and they had 2 this season)

well thats all i could think of, the posts so far are good and helpful. im just very competitive (sometimes too much) but i would hate to have him come back and just blow it for us while everyweek im getting better and bowling over average but it would be for nothing except bring up my avg. which is good but i hate losing. especially if someone bowls way under or a big one if is i choke at the end of a game and lose it, (done this twice the past 3 weeks) frown lol anyways ask more questions if you need and ill be glad to add details


Edited by sharnothegreat (04/18/11 07:59 PM)
_________________________
High game 237
High series 562
avg: 165

arsenal:
Hammer-Raw Hammer ACID
Brunswick-Zone spare

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#150343 - 04/18/11 11:03 PM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
OK, thanks for the update.

First impressions re: your response. You are in 3rd, 4 out. So you have to win all 4 next week and I suppose 2nd place has to lose all 4? And then you'll be tied. Sorry, but odds are not good on that. I mean it could happen. How many weeks are left?

I know by now you are probably close on time when you bowl next. But there's got to be some expectations that the returning bowler can complete three games. You said he can barely walk. He has to go practice. And then I would put it to both bowlers. Maybe between the two of them they can decide who is to bowl with the team captain's input. Maybe if there's more weeks left they can trade off.

Erin

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#150376 - 04/19/11 04:48 PM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Technically, the spot is still the original bowler's since he/his wife are paying for that spot and the wife is the team captain, but it sounds like he still isn't in any shape to bowl if he is walking with a cane. It is not uncommon for bowling to be beneficial for certain back problems, but I don't think it would be wise to do so in a league environment even if that was the case. Three games might be hard to complete at first.

Basically I am in a similar spot as your friend and the original bowler combined, but it's a little different. I let someone take over my spot on the team after eye surgery and uncertainty about being able to pay for league when I could return to the lanes. I stayed on the roster in case I was needed during position nights. We might have a better chance at winning more games with me in the place of one of a the lower skilled bowlers, assuming I bowl up to my average, but they are paying for the spot. I bowl when someone isn't going to make it, or even sub for other teams, it's allowed by our league by-laws as long as it's not against the team I am a roster member of. Of course next season is a different story as I will be returning to the team, and at least one member is already planning on being on another team.
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#150386 - 04/19/11 08:33 PM Re: injured bowler coming back question [Re: sharnothegreat]
sharnothegreat Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 162
A/S/L: 25/m/FL
thanks for your input, to reply to erin, each week we are able to win 7 points, 2 for each game and 1 for totals. so its not that far off, last week we won 7 against a pretty decent team and they only won 2.

but anyways, i talked to the lady and she said that hes not feeling well again so hes not coming back as of right now. so for right now all is well.
_________________________
High game 237
High series 562
avg: 165

arsenal:
Hammer-Raw Hammer ACID
Brunswick-Zone spare

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