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#141953 - 12/20/10 09:48 PM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
If all you want to bowl for is social reasons, then don't get in a league. Just get a bunch of friends together.

No matter how you look at, joining a league involves competition. I was going to join a merchandise league about 4 summers back, where we got a high performance ball. Well it turned out the league wasn't going to be real league. You came in and bowled whenever you wanted during the week, letting the front desk know what you were there for and paying for the league then. There was going to be no actual league night. I opted not to bowl in it, I could just buy the ball for the same price of the league and just open bowl when I wanted.
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#141954 - 12/20/10 09:57 PM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
DavyDave Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 45
A/S/L: 26/M/SoCal
Wow.... Well is there anything that can be done fix the system?
I was thinking just make the handicap a per game bases
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#141956 - 12/20/10 10:25 PM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: DavyDave]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: DavyDave
Wow.... Well is there anything that can be done fix the system?
I was thinking just make the handicap a per game bases


For most people both low and high handicaps the system is fine. But like anything there will be some people who want it to be different.

My league chooses to adjust the handicap point each year based on the top average and I think that keeps it balanced. Without it the ultra high averages have a small edge.

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#141959 - 12/20/10 10:43 PM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
Smooth Lefty Offline
High Roller

Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 384
A/S/L: 17 M USA
Wow, didn't know this topic was still going on, all great info!
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#141967 - 12/21/10 12:32 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
ebon betta Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 488
A/S/L: 54/m/nyc /ny2
It's nice to be able to recoup the 17 bucks I get beat out of each week....But I know I wont..choice stay in the house 24/7 with my mom who has severe alzhiemers or give up 17 bucks a week to a prize fund shrug..eitherway I lose.... It's xmas time..highest suicide time of the year...hurrah..sigh.

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#141968 - 12/21/10 01:01 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: ebon betta]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Originally Posted By: ebon betta
It's nice to be able to recoup the 17 bucks I get beat out of each week....But I know I wont..choice stay in the house 24/7 with my mom who has severe alzhiemers or give up 17 bucks a week to a prize fund shrug..eitherway I lose.... It's xmas time..highest suicide time of the year...hurrah..sigh.


You might want to check with your league on how your payouts work. In all the leagues I've been in each point you win earns you money, so while the top teams win more and bonuses are paid out to the top 3 teams, every team gets something back.

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#141971 - 12/21/10 03:16 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
So you join a league and its.....$15 or $17 a week. It might even be $13 a week. But who joins a league thinking that they are going to recoop their league money? I don't even think the league champions at the end of league make that much. And then the prize fund is usually divided up far and wide so that everyone gets a bit. I think joining a league and expecting to get your weekly dues back in prize fund is unrealistic. And its not a good attitude to go into each week..."I got beat out of my league fees tonight".

Some handicap leagues are divided up by average, but this is usually for extra pot games and bowler of the month type competitions that you have to pay into extra like brackets each week. This takes a lot of effort on the secretary's part to organize these things. But it does happen. But the more money options a league creates through extra pot games, only brings the more competative bowlers out. It all depends on the balance of those prizes.

Leagues that build their teams based on average are out there. But not very common. People want to bowl with their friends. The friend might be a lower average bowler and then a scratch league not applicable, or a higher average bowler and then a handicap league will ridicule them for being high average bowlers.

No matter what many lower average bowlers think, the 200 - 210 bowler has little opportunity to bowl scratch. They are caught in the middle. Considered too high for handicap leagues and too low for scratch leagues.

Erin

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#141973 - 12/21/10 06:07 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9763
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Every league I bowl in has a different payout schedule. And yes, the top teams do get more. That is the competition of the Sport.

But, every team should have a payout schedule that has been approved by league vote. It should explain what the $17 goes to. If $10 of the $17 pays for lineage to the house, then you are contributing to a prize fund with the remaining $7. Your objective is to get as much of that $7 as you can. Winners may earn $9 while the lower standing teams may only get $5 back. Each league is different.

One league I am in has a flat return schedule for teams from first to last place. A reward for first, second, third and fourth place finishes. And, individual prize for points won by each bowler. So, even though we are a team, individuals on that team can earn different amounts.

Another league has a fixed return from first to last place, which is 2X for first and X for last.

The final league is social and the payout is pretty static, with the payouts per team lowering by $8-9 per position. That's not very significant.

If your team captain does not have your league payout schedule, check with your league Treasurer or Secretary to get one.

But, in most cases, you can only expect to get your prize fund back, or a portion of it.
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#141997 - 12/21/10 10:45 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
ebon betta Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 488
A/S/L: 54/m/nyc /ny2
uhm I pay $30 a week so $17 a week is the prise fund , period...
$13 for line fees but you wonder why in this economy they have just 6 teams bowling ?

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#142000 - 12/21/10 11:11 AM Re: Scratch and Handicap [Re: Smooth Lefty]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
WOW Ebon.....we only have a couple very high level draft scratch leagues at that rate. And with that much prize fund, you are going to draw "sharks". The high average bowlers that are there to win money. Such a league, IMO, would not be suitable for lower average bowlers.

No sec/tres fee? That's odd. Does the house run this league? Is it sanctioned?

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