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#141649 - 12/17/10 11:08 PM Don't angle enough or ...?
spdarr Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 36
A/S/L: 44/M/Malaysia
I got this problem unable to reach the break-point (8th board I guessed)on this wood lane. Even though I felt I have turned my body facing the break point, resulted in (ringing?) 10th pin.

These are two different shots which look very similar. Appreciate your constructive comments..





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#141656 - 12/18/10 12:10 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
trekguy Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 783
A/S/L: 56/M/Mn
Well, you're playing the center of the lane with little to no hook... that's not going to result in much angle to the pocket. Move your feet 10 boards right, and target 2nd arrow and see where that goes.
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#141662 - 12/18/10 01:09 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
spillup24 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/02/10
Posts: 349
A/S/L: Philadelphia, PA
Your question is hitting the 8 board at the break point. One thing is it looks like your hand is already fully turned as the ball comes into view on the video which is way to early. I mean you are already fully on the outside of the ball and you haven't even made it to your heel yet on your downswing. Maybe that is a reason that the ball is not projecting? Your shoulders and waist may not be open enough either. I think the extreme early turn of your hand might be the major issue. Lets see what others on here have to say.

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#141663 - 12/18/10 01:35 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: trekguy]
spdarr Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 36
A/S/L: 44/M/Malaysia
Originally Posted By: trekguy
Well, you're playing the center of the lane with little to no hook... that's not going to result in much angle to the pocket. Move your feet 10 boards right, and target 2nd arrow and see where that goes.


I agree... but that wasn't my intention. I intentionally want to play deeper, but couldn't send the ball far right.

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#141664 - 12/18/10 01:37 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spillup24]
spdarr Offline
Junior Master

Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 36
A/S/L: 44/M/Malaysia
Originally Posted By: spillup24
Your question is hitting the 8 board at the break point. One thing is it looks like your hand is already fully turned as the ball comes into view on the video which is way to early. I mean you are already fully on the outside of the ball and you haven't even made it to your heel yet on your downswing. Maybe that is a reason that the ball is not projecting? Your shoulders and waist may not be open enough either. I think the extreme early turn of your hand might be the major issue. Lets see what others on here have to say.


Yeah... the ball seems to fall in front of me instead when I tried to open for more angle.

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#141669 - 12/18/10 04:23 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
mikhial66 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 318
A/S/L: 20/M/FL
It's hard to say by just seeing those two videos but if I had to guess I would say it's one of the following. Getting deeper makes you want to try and hook it more, so you turn the ball earlier and that sends it further left with more side roll resulting in weak and late 10 pins. It could also be you shoulders and/or hips not being open enough. Make sure they are facing the breakpoint the whole way down and don't close up at any point. I would also work on keeping your elbow in on your shots (which will help you send it right) and staying down at the line (you're bending over; bend with your knees).
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#141671 - 12/18/10 06:22 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: mikhial66]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: mikhial66
... It could also be you shoulders and/or hips not being open enough. Make sure they are facing the breakpoint the whole way down and don't close up at any point.

I agree with Mmikial66's whole post, but particularly this part.

You're throwing it at the wrong place. If you watch your arm in the video, you can see there's no way the ball can get out to the edge of the lane. I agree with mikial66 that you're probably pulling up, like a horse that doesn't want to jump a fence.

you have to throw it deliberately at the gutter halfway down the lane, and trust that it will come back.
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#141676 - 12/18/10 07:35 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I can't see your shoulders, but if you look at the direction of your arm swing you will see the ball travel in the direction of your swing which is to the left of the center of your body.

Hitting the break point is easy, getting your brain to let you hit it is another issue, and getting the ball to hook back from the break point is yet another.

To hit the break point simply close your eyes at the top of the back swing and don't open them until after the ball is on it's way down the lane. Closing your eyes will shut off the control freak in the back of your head who is turning your survival instincts against you, and making you afraid of the gutter and not hooking the ball back to the pocket enough.

If you close your eyes enough as described, the inner control freak will gradually let you square your shoulders to the target line/break point instead of pulling your upper body around to the left. This will get you to the break point consistently, the key is to not worry about hooking the ball back to the pocket from there, be happy if the ball goes through the 8 board and picks the 10 pin out of the rack, at least you hit the break point and that's half the battle.

To get confidence in how much you hook the ball you first need to learn to throw the ball straight. You can do this by standing on the 7 board and aim at the 2 or 3 board (from the gutter) and try to pick the 10 pin out of the rack. It's harder than it sounds, but once you learn to get the ball to the 6 or 10 pin on a consistent basis it is easy to feel how much you need to let your hand and wrist turn to get the ball to the pocket from there, then all you need to do is move your feet inside 5 boards and stand on 12 and aim at 5 and see how much you need to cock your fingers to get the ball to hook back to the pocket from there. Then move your feet in to 17 and aim at the 8 board (at the arrows, 2 or 3 board at the break) and see how much you need to adjust your wrist to get the ball to the pocket from there.

Next step is move your feet 5 more boards to 22 and aim at the 11 board and see what it takes to get the ball to the pocket from there, you might need to adjust speed and hand position as well.
You will find that moving your feet in requires slower speed and more wrist and less force, the more you force the ball down the lane, the less predictable it will be, and the more you relax and just let the ball do it's thing the more consistent and confident you will be that it will make the turn back to the pocket at the right point.

Keep moving inside farther and farther moving your feet 5 boards and your target 3 to 4 boards you will find what combination of feet to target move works best for you and you will slowly develop confidence in your ability to hook the ball back from just about anywhere.

What I have just described may take several months of diligent practice and may not come to you easily, so have patients.

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#141685 - 12/18/10 08:57 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Quote:
Closing your eyes will shut off the control freak in the back of your head who is turning your survival instincts against you, and making you afraid of the gutter and not hooking the ball back to the pocket enough.


No intention to hyjack but.....
is this the "freak" that made me toss it in the gutter the first game on Wed.? If so, he works with your eyes open sometimes too.

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#141686 - 12/18/10 09:01 AM Re: Don't angle enough or ...? [Re: spdarr]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
My first gut reaction to seeing both videos is just that you are too far inside. Move two and two (two with your feet, two with your primary target) to the right and see what happens.

Why do you want to play deeper if that's not the shot?

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