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#135152 - 09/13/10 12:17 AM Looks like I've been wasting my time :(
MikeHL Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 763
A/S/L: 34/M/da U.P. of Michigan, eh
Had the brilliant idea to try a few games in a part of the lane well inside of my comfort zone. It was a debacle. Every time I hit my target, I missed the headpin to the outside. Every time I pulled the ball 4-5 boards inside, it would go high-flush and strike. eek

By the title of this thread, I mean that if after all this time this is the best I can do, maybe I should take up knitting or something. My timing is still screwed up, and it appears to be [censored] everything else up with it.



Maybe I was spoiled to have candlepin technique come to me very, very easily. This has been very, very hard.
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"I thought duckpins were tough until I tried candlepins. If you are good in candlepin, my hat's off to you!"
-- Johnny Petraglia
"I've thrown one of these things (a candlepin ball). These are HARD!"
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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#135156 - 09/13/10 12:46 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Are you still trying to do that 3 step timing? Looks really tough to time and kind of awkward.

Also your fit might not be right or your bending your thumb because the ball gets stuck on your hand a few times and you majorly loft the ball.

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#135157 - 09/13/10 01:02 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
Revenator Offline
Bracket Donor

Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 118
A/S/L: 49
Hey Mike,

I checked your video out, you have some good things going for you, one you look like you have some athletic ability.
Here is the part of the game I feel you need to study, watch some video's and read some books and articles on.
Your foot work and pushaway are working against you, and when you start incorrectly it makes a person inconsistant and unbalanced. This is why your right leg alot of time swings back to the right. The right leg should swing more to the left, and you should be able to stay in that finished position. You can't consistantly do this because your start is wrong.
Fundamentals: When you take four steps, as you do, the ball is pushed out with the first step(all the way out). You don't do this, your pushing on the second step. This causes timing problems, but since you are athletic, your legs and body try to make up for it, that's why there are pauses in your foot work, and sometimes the ball doesn't want to go off your hand clean, it even effects your release. Now, in a five step delivery the ball is pushed on the second step, it may be easier for you to do this, than to try pushing on the first with the four step. Simply take a small step with your left foot first, then do what you do, push the ball on the second step. Give it a chance, try aleast 4 or 5 games on it.
But, the main thing is, your problem is your start and foot work.
We throw heavy bowling balls that are on one side of our body, so we have to counter that weight properly with a proper start and foot work. That is why are right leg swings left, and we stick our left arm out, to counter the heavy ball. I've never played candlepin bowling, but I would assume this isn't that important due to the weight that's being thrown. But it's very important in the sport of bowling.
Good Luck
Don

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#135160 - 09/13/10 02:30 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: B-Hammer]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
Are you still trying to do that 3 step timing? Looks really tough to time and kind of awkward.
That's the first thing I noticed, as rejuvie said. You should pushaway as you take the first step.

Also, you're bending over too far, which causes you to lose leverage and balance at the release.

I don't know about that hesitation between the 2nd and 3rd step. I know Rocket likes to do it, but I don't do it. In fact, about 6 years ago I spent some time getting rid of it.

I agree with rejuvenator that a 5-step might make you feel more comfortable.

rej was also right-on in noticing that the candlepin ball doesn't require the balancing act that a heavy tenpin ball requires during your approach.

Also, not being an expert on this, but it looks like your backswing is free but you muscle the forward swing, possibly because of the timing issue.
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#135163 - 09/13/10 08:15 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: 10PinGaloot]
MikeHL Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 763
A/S/L: 34/M/da U.P. of Michigan, eh
Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
Originally Posted By: B-Hammer
Are you still trying to do that 3 step timing? Looks really tough to time and kind of awkward.
That's the first thing I noticed, as rejuvie said. You should pushaway as you take the first step.

Yup, I see it, too. Problem is I'm not making an effort to do it anymore; it just happened that way. eek So far, I've had a choice of my timing being either really, really early (with 5) or really, really late (with 4). Can't find a happy medium.

Originally Posted By: 10PinGaloot
I agree with rejuvenator that a 5-step might make you feel more comfortable.

rej was also right-on in noticing that the candlepin ball doesn't require the balancing act that a heavy tenpin ball requires during your approach.

When I used 5 for 8 months, it felt horribly awkward and unbalanced. My coach here suggested in May that I try 4. I haven't seen her since then. After trying 4, 4 feels...horribly awkward and unbalanced. brickwall

And no, at 2 pounds 7 ounces, a candlepin ball doesn't require a balancing act. That's where I think the hesitation comes in -- I'm trying not to rush out the pivot step and plant too soon. The bend at the waist, too? Damned if I know what to do about that.
_________________________
"I thought duckpins were tough until I tried candlepins. If you are good in candlepin, my hat's off to you!"
-- Johnny Petraglia
"I've thrown one of these things (a candlepin ball). These are HARD!"
-- Mika Koivuniemi

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#135165 - 09/13/10 08:32 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9809
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
MikeHL, any time you make a drastic change in your approach, it will feel awkward. You are rolling 10-pin with a Candlestick approach. The two games are different, and you may have to radically change.

You can take those quick steps in candlestick, but not in 10-pin. You don't need your steps to generate speed. More speed = less ball reaction.
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#135172 - 09/13/10 10:16 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
MikeHL,
I think its also coming from the fact that you are trying to work on bits and pieces of your game without removing the other pieces. Think of your bowling game like a video game, if you can save after you beat the stuff you know how to do in order to give you practice on the levels you haven't mastered then you don't have to waste your time doing things that you are not trying to work on. Its the same with bowling. Save all the other stuff for later and just work on your timing. You can do it at your house if you need to, even without a ball but something in the hand would be good.

Just line up and take your first step. Now with that first step move your "ball" and push/drop it into the swing. After that second step if you are using something light just stop yourself and start the process over. There is no sense in releasing the ball right now if you cannot get to the release cleanly.

Have fun with it as well. Remember that you are bowling to get some enjoyment out of it, otherwise you might as well just go to work, clock in, be bored/angry/tired and at least get paid for it.
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#135174 - 09/13/10 10:31 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
Mike, I once watched a local Pro Bowling a shift in the Cleveland tourney (when they still had one) and I was amazed at how smooth his timing was. After he finished, I asked him his secret to good timing. He told me that at home, without the ball, he set up in his stance and then said out loud "One" and stepped and pushed away at the same time, just the one step. He said if you do that for a while it becomes so ingrained in muscle memory that you start doing it with the ball at the lanes.

At the tourney he was playing straight up the 3 board and never missed.

And no....you are not wasting your time. Learning is like being on a roller coaster. it's never a straight path;)
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#135177 - 09/13/10 11:31 AM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: JackZ]
Handful Offline
High Roller

Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 399
A/S/L: 32/male/St Pete, FL/ usa
Originally Posted By: JackZ
I asked him his secret to good timing. He told me that at home, without the ball, he set up in his stance and then said out loud "One" and stepped and pushed away at the same time, just the one step.


Great drill for you. do this at home every day for 10-15 min and your pick up on the correct timing.
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#135179 - 09/13/10 12:05 PM Re: Looks like I've been wasting my time :( [Re: MikeHL]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Mike, you might want to try the "set the ball on the table and walk past it" approach. Don't thing about swinging the ball or the steps just set it on the table with your first step and walk past it.

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