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#134341 - 09/02/10 01:08 AM A little vid about my bowling
Norm3v Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 270
A/S/L: 34 M NJ US
Hey everyone, just had a vid taken of me tonight and I figured I'd post it for you guys to check out. I tried some new things tonight and got some really good results. First thing I did was try to the ball to roll off my hand better and get better rotation with my index and ring finger instead of staying behind the ball and twisting with my wrist and fingers. I used a Robbies Revs 3 to help me, which is fine because I have to wear a wrist support anway (bad wrist, too much typing). I also worked on improving my push away, but not too much, just enough to help my accuracy.

A little bowling background about me, I started bowling in leagues when I was 9 years old and stopped around 15(like an idiot). After years of just going a few times a year, I bought new equipment and got back into it at age 21. However, I didn't end up joining a league until last year, more of a roaming free agent. A year and a half ago I was introduced to a great Pro Shop that fixed up my fitting and laid out my equipment the right way, which took my game to the next level, thanks Rick! No more pinching the ball!

A little about how I bowl. My game is hampered by herniated disks in my upper back and a bad left knee (back is done forever, and knee is getting fixed next summer). You will notice that my first step onto my left foot is a little weak, I do not slide on my left leg, and I fall off my leg to the right after throwing, all to avoid injuring my knee further. If I correct either or both, I won't make it very long. You can also notice that I'm hunched to the right towards the ball and forward, as well as me muscling the ball, all of which takes the pressure off of my back. I also lean forward a bit because up until three years ago I always looked down at the foul line during my approach (kicked the habbit and it took my game up a notch).

There are many things I need to work on from there. I've kind of created my own style to compensate for injuries, but there are still things I could do better despite that. It's funny watching the video because it doesn't look as bad as it feels lol. Sorry I didn't get any ball reaction shot in there, but it was good tonight. IMHO bad reaction doesn't really happen on the lanes, it happens on the approach. Thanks guys, and fire away! lol.

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#134355 - 09/02/10 09:41 AM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
Charlie98 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 539
A/S/L: 53/M/McKinney, TX
Welcome to the bad knee/bad back club! I have 2 blown disks in my lower back, so I compensate by staying more upright through the approach. I do slide my left foot but am ready to 'break right' after release if I loose balance or feel my knee going.

The most obvious thing I see is at the top of your backswing your hand is not behind the ball, rather at about 45^.
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#134357 - 09/02/10 09:47 AM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
So just curious, where did you get the idea that stepping into the line instead of sliding will keep you from being injured but sliding will cause injury?

I am just wondering because more times than not you hear that players that plant are more prone to knee and joint injuries because of the sudden and abrupt stopping and all the torque and pressure that puts on the knee. Sliding is there to transfer momentum from your body to the ball, and to give you a way of slowing yourself down in a less violent way.

Are you sure that you are helping the knee by planting? I would just hate for you to get hurt because of something that you feel you are doing to alleviate the problem. The planting might be right for your case, I just wanted to make sure.
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#134358 - 09/02/10 09:53 AM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9820
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Not a knee and back, but a left hip and back, L1 speciically. As my coach said when I had the injury, "we have to work with what we have"

That has resulted in a more erect release, and less of a slide leg bend. Not to say, tons of practice.

The most common faults I find are a tendancy to early rotate the wrist in the swing, resulting in pulling often, and losing balance.

Chicken winging the down swing which leaves the arm far from the ankle at rlease.

And, a tendancy to rush the downswing.

Most of these are created because of the change in timing, being erect and lessening the slide. It takes a real effort to maintain foot speed and arm swing.

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#134360 - 09/02/10 10:06 AM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
spr3wr Offline
USBC Bronze Level Coach

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 557
A/S/L: 54/m/MICHIGAN


The ball is almost have way down the lane when you fall off the shot,So don't worry about that.
Watch your trail leg. Slid your leg over instead of a slamming it over. That also will help with balance.
Can you tilt a little more right in your set up? Keep your head over the ball during the entire approach.


Edited by spr3wr (09/02/10 10:07 AM)
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#134389 - 09/02/10 04:50 PM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
Norm3v Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 270
A/S/L: 34 M NJ US
Thanks for the feedback guys!

I just switched from having most of the ball weight in my bowling hand to putting most of it in my left hand. I'm glad you pointed that out because now I see how much the ball is in front of me compared to before. I need to work on keeping it to the right more and under my head like you said.

I agree Dennis, it seems that I have to use more muscles and strength to compensate for the injuries than I ever did when I was younger. But I think that I'm getting to the point to where I've accepted that an effortless swing such as PDW and Fagan might never happen, but I'm a bigger WRWjr fan, so I have hope lol.

Yea Sk8, I envy everyone who has a smooth natural slide. I try to do it at times, but it feels like my knee is giving way. As you can see, I don't have a crankers plant and release, but it's closer to that than a full slide. If I can get my knee fixed right I'm going to work on it, seems like it might be hard to learn.

Thanks for the observation Charlie. My normal shot is to keep my hand behind the ball the entire time until the bottom of my swing then I would spin and crank my wrist with very little revs or tilt. I could never figure out why people were putting more on their ball than I was but doing a lot less with their wrist than I was and I realized that I was trying too hard and went back to basics. I was practicing just keeping my hand on the side of the ball and letting it roll off and hitting it with my fingers at the end. I put more revs on the ball than I ever have in my life going coast to coast at one point with my MCP.I wish my wrist wasn't messed up so I didn't need the wrist support, but like Dennis' coach said "we have to work with what we have". Check out this pic of what happened to me trying to do what the Robbies does:

So yea, I was exagerating keeping my hand on the side to train myself, but I need to work on that transition better like you said. I hate seeing my hand on the downswing being on the side of the ball like that, but for now the Scroggins style is working.

Also, sorry for the bad video quality, my Droid wasn't happy with the lighting. Next time I go I'm going to bring my camcorder. I'm going to try to get a side shot as well, couldn't that night because there were people to the right of us.

Thanks again guys, keep it coming!
_________________________
Currently in the bag:
- IQ Tour Pearl
- Hy-Road Pearl
- Lucid
- Tropical Heat Pearl (Red/Blue)

High Game: 300 (2)
High Series: 758
Average: 210

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#134396 - 09/02/10 05:26 PM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
Charlie98 Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 539
A/S/L: 53/M/McKinney, TX
I've tried a Robbie's and finally threw it away. It did more to hurt me than help. I also had to use it or not, because if I took it off midway through a game, my thumb was 'weak' and I kept early releasing the ball.

I have also tried some different backswing hand positions including ball left, ball right and even an open 'chicken wing' style. But I'm back to the 'hand behind the ball' swing (much of it because of what I have read here...) and it works very well for me.
_________________________
I'm the other Dennis

Locked and Loaded:
Precision Solid 15#
Logix 15#
811A-SE 15#
2Fast 15#

Career
HG: 279
HS: 724
HA: 211

Fall/Winter 2019-20
AVG: 208
HG: 268
HS: 660

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#134417 - 09/02/10 08:43 PM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
IBowlPaul1969 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 54
A/S/L: 41, M, Fort Wayne
Hi Norm,
Really not that bad, don't be to harsh on yourself. A couple of small points, try starting with the ball closer to your body, that will take stress off your shoulder and back.
I can't tell what kind of shoes you are wearing, but you might want to invest in a more high end pair. I wear Dexter SST's, they have interchangeable heels and soles so you can adjust your slide as you need to. I worked with David Ozio a couple of times, and he always stressed the importance of good shoes that could provide for a stable platform.
I am not a wrister fan, they tend to pull the thumb out too soon, making you grip the ball too hard. I used to wear the Masterwrister band, which is a neoprene piece that adjusts with velcro. When the PBA said no more to Master products I switched to taping my wrist. Either way, it supports my wrist without affecting my game.
Anyhow, not nearly as 'Bad' as you think it is, just stick with it and have fun.
CHEERS!
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#134419 - 09/02/10 09:31 PM Re: A little vid about my bowling [Re: Norm3v]
Norm3v Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 270
A/S/L: 34 M NJ US
I hated the Robbies until I got my span reduced about 1/16 which made it much more comfortable and usable. I really didn't get how it worked until I stopped trying to wear it and crank the ball. Now I just wear it and let it do it's thing and it works great. If I can somehow get some more strength in my wrist (tried strengthening it with free weights, but no go), then I would love to toss it and do the same without. I'm experimenting with different backswings, along with other new stuff, and I'm learning more from it than just sticking with a safe delivery, and having more fun too lol. It's like I tell my wife and anyone else that is just getting into bowling, get the muscle memory down first, then perfect everything later, and that's what I'm doing now. Being back into bowling on a regular basis now for just over a year, I'm now at the point again where I can try new things and not mess myself up.

I agree Paul, I'm trying to get the push away down, but struggling to do it consistantly so for now I'm just putting the ball halfway into my push already to allow me to be more consistant. Once I get it down, it should fix a lot of other timing issues as well.

As far as the shoes, I wear Dexter SST4s. The video is a little dark and grainy, plus I'm wearing ankle socks, so it's probably hard to tell. I agree though, my game got better years ago when I switched from cheaper Dexters to the SSTs. It has the interchangeable sole and heel, but I don't slide much so I don't switch them out. But boy are they comfortable, I can just imagine what the 8s feel like.

Thanks for the compliment Paul! My wife says the same thing, she's like "why aren't you ever happy after a strike?" I always think it could be better. But lately I've been working on just a tiny fist pump celebration after a good shot to even out the emotions. I used to dwell on shots, but I've been working on keeping cool the entire game.
_________________________
Currently in the bag:
- IQ Tour Pearl
- Hy-Road Pearl
- Lucid
- Tropical Heat Pearl (Red/Blue)

High Game: 300 (2)
High Series: 758
Average: 210

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