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#134092 - 08/29/10 04:39 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
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I feel that Calvin's view is the most consistent with the spirit of the rules. If I'm not mistaken, any combination of one or two hands should be acceptable as long as the dominant hand is being used every time.

The exception is the between-the-legs method in youth leagues, which might also extend to adults. That's the part that is causing my confusion because the wording and intent is not clear to me. I also don't feel the need for that rule.

I'd like to get a written answer to clarify everything. So all I can do is wait. I'll say one thing though, I've seen worse things than a switch from one to two hands during league. heh

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#134094 - 08/29/10 04:54 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Seems that a bowler must establish an average, bowling either right handed, left handed, or using both hands on the strike ball. But, then on spares, the bowler may only use the hand that is dominant on the strike ball.


An average isn't calculated just by strike balls though so the average can't be established that way. In adult leagues you are allowed to go from two handed to one handed and back as long as the same dominant hand is used, even on strike shots. It's the Youth leagues that has the stipulation.
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#134095 - 08/29/10 05:39 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
No, an average is not calculated by only the first ball. But, how a bowler rolls the first ball deterines what type of bowler they are, right, left or 2-handed.

Let me be clear. This IS a new Youth League Rule. A Youth bowler has to maintain a book average by whether they use only right, only left or whether they use a 2-handed release. And, this is only the first ball, by definition.

The succeeding rule is for spares where a bowler has to use the dominant hand from the first delivery.

So, a 2-handed bowler, supporting the ball with their right hand cannot use a 1-handed delivery with the left hand for spares.
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#134101 - 08/29/10 09:22 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: Dennis Michael]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
No, an average is not calculated by only the first ball. But, how a bowler rolls the first ball deterines what type of bowler they are, right, left or 2-handed.

Let me be clear. This IS a new Youth League Rule. A Youth bowler has to maintain a book average by whether they use only right, only left or whether they use a 2-handed release. And, this is only the first ball, by definition.

The succeeding rule is for spares where a bowler has to use the dominant hand from the first delivery.

So, a 2-handed bowler, supporting the ball with their right hand cannot use a 1-handed delivery with the left hand for spares.


Sounds correct for the youth league. Still, it seems more discriminatory than anything. If the first ball determines whether the bowler is one-handed or two-handed, yet ADULTS are allowed to switch at will, the rule cannot apply to ADULTS. If the rules don't apply to adults, how is it fair to limit YOUTHS with such a rule? Shouldn't it be the choice of the individual, maybe along with the advice of their coach?

I wonder if golf would ever have a rule that if a golfer swings with one hand, said golfer would have to ALWAYS use only one hand. That is, a YOUTH golfer. Makes no sense.

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#134102 - 08/29/10 09:39 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
Now I understand better....

Just because someone (adult or youth) has a two handed delivery, does not give them the right to switch hands at will for a single handed delivery, since there are very clear rules for choosing and staying with a primary hand for delivering the ball.

It sounds like the youth bowler or their parent or adult assumed they could circumvent the rule to their advantage. It doesn't work that way...

Oh well, there will always be cheaters looking for an advantage.

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#134106 - 08/29/10 10:13 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Cal, the dominant hand strike/spare rule has not changed in either Youth or adult. The new rule isolates the 2-handed delivery separate from a left or right. A Youth bowler cannot switch between 2-handed and single handed in a match. Just as any bowler cannot switch between left and right.
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#134147 - 08/30/10 05:02 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth League? [Re: aoiten]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
YYYYYEEEESSSS!!!! Pasting the response from the USBC on this issue.

Dear Bowler,

This is in response to your email below. (Same as my original post.)

The youth rule you are referring to is for youth bowlers who push the ball between their legs with both hands (mostly pee wee bowlers not strong enough to hold the ball).
That is considered a two handed delivery and the bowler must maintain a separate average.

For other bowlers, like Osku, who use the two handed approach, they can switch back and forth from the two handed approach and one handed delivery at any time.


Should you have any questions, feel free to contact us.

Derek Eoff
Rules Counselor

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#134172 - 08/30/10 11:13 PM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth Lea [Re: aoiten]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9814
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
(mostly pee wee bowlers)

That is not what is being done at our center. A separate average is being kept for Bantam and Junior bowlers too.

I guess, rather than do it for most, they are doing it for all. I guess that was their interpretation.
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#134180 - 08/31/10 09:17 AM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth Lea [Re: Dennis Michael]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
(mostly pee wee bowlers)

That is not what is being done at our center. A separate average is being kept for Bantam and Junior bowlers too.

I guess, rather than do it for most, they are doing it for all. I guess that was their interpretation.


Are you referring to the between-the-legs delivery? If so, a separate average is the required. (Not that I understand or agree with that.) If you are referring to the Belmo-style two handed approach then they are mis-interpreting the tules and should be corrected. An incorrect interpretation of the rules might discourage many future two-handers in their larval stage.

Notice the wording of the e-mail. The writer used the terms "delivery" and "approach" somewhat carefully. The between-the-legs method was called a two-handed delivery while the Belmo style was called a two-handed approach. Belmo still delivers the ball with his dominant right hand.

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#134197 - 08/31/10 10:41 AM Re: 2-handed strikes, 1-handed spares in Youth Lea [Re: aoiten]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
I agree that the Belmo/Osku style is a two handed approach with a one handed delivery. There is an obvious dominant hand in that style, where the between the legs two handed release there is no definitive dominate hand.

I think the rule makes sense, as these rules are in place to encourage fair play, as well as to maintain the integrity of averages.
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