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#133479 - 08/17/10 05:55 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Clearly you don't want anyone to see you until you are doing better. Understandable. At the same time, you're right that we should just end this thread because there is no way to help you much more without video. Looking forward to your future thread and video.

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#133482 - 08/17/10 06:29 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
minormillikin Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 44
A/S/L: 32/M/Monterey
Just an update on my own process related to the whole "can't seem to hook the ball" topic:

A while ago I posted on here that I was having some success getting a consistent hook by simply imagining how I wanted the ball to rotate as it left my hand. That did, in fact, get me to throw a consistent hook -- for a while. My targeting, on the other hand, was awful. I couldn't even hit the same arrow two shots in a row. Then, for some reason, I just couldn't hook the ball anymore. It just went away.

I decided to go back to basics (again) and forget about the hook for the time being. I spent about 20 games (over a week or so), just throwing the ball straight and trying to consistently, smoothly, comfortably, hit whatever mark I decided I wanted to hit. Scores were low, but I made a lot of progress in developing more consistency.

So, last weekend I go out to the lanes as always, and decide to step things up a bit and see if I can get the hook to work again. Once again, it was just a matter of getting the right idea in my mind to make it work.

A lot of people on this forum remind us to "keep your hand behind the ball." For whatever reason, that concept never clicked right for me and when I'd try to keep my hand "behind the ball," I'd end up releasing too early/too late/lofting/throwing a backup ball, or some other bone-headed thing.

There was a bowler in the alley I'd never seen before, a couple lanes down. When we walked in my girlfriend remarked, "That guy looks kind of like Chris Barnes." It wasn't Chris Barnes, though I could see the resemblance, not just in looks, but in his delivery. He was finishing up a 250-something game.

While bowling, I'd watch him now and then just to get an idea where he was getting all those revs from. Something about watching him gave me an idea.

I decided I would imagine that, immediately prior to release, my hand would be around the side of the ball (3 oclock), with my fingers on the bottom of the ball (wrist cocked at 90 degrees, so the hand pointed at my right leg). Keep in mind -- this is just what I am thinking about -- not actually what I was doing*.

On my very first attempt, I got more revs that I'd ever seen (other than when I've tried two-handed or chicken-winging). By the end of the night, I was still getting a nice hook and was getting to the point where I had to work on finding a good line to the pocket. Now and then, I found a line that worked -- and even strung together a few really solid, perfect-pocket, strikes.

I was pretty happy to find something that worked (again), and I will continue working on it this week and see if I can start finding some more consistency.



*Note: I video tape myself a lot while bowling, and will look at the videos on the spot. While I imagined my hand was around/under the ball -- it really wasn't. My wrist wasn't cocked 90 degrees, either. That was just a visualization I used. As it turns out, prior to release, my wrist was cocked about 30 degrees, with the hand *behind the ball* (not under) and basically doing a lot of what everyone says I'm supposed to do. So, for some reason, exaggerating visualizations in my head seems to work.


Edited by minormillikin (08/17/10 06:30 PM)

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#133485 - 08/17/10 06:58 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: aoiten]
Doty Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 57
A/S/L: 17/Male/Illinois
Originally Posted By: aoiten
Clearly you don't want anyone to see you until you are doing better. Understandable. At the same time, you're right that we should just end this thread because there is no way to help you much more without video. Looking forward to your future thread and video.


I never said that. I was just wanting to get hooking down first a little so then I can get better tips. Only problems I see now is keeping my shoulders straight at the foul line

But, close this thread


Edited by Doty (08/17/10 06:58 PM)

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#133486 - 08/17/10 07:19 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Doty
Originally Posted By: aoiten
Clearly you don't want anyone to see you until you are doing better. Understandable. At the same time, you're right that we should just end this thread because there is no way to help you much more without video. Looking forward to your future thread and video.


I never said that. I was just wanting to get hooking down first a little so then I can get better tips. Only problems I see now is keeping my shoulders straight at the foul line

But, close this thread


Sorry, that was just my perspective.

The thread ends when no one posts anymore. So we just need to play library and be very, very quiiiiet. hehe

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#133487 - 08/17/10 07:27 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: minormillikin]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: minormillikin
Just an update on my own process related to the whole "can't seem to hook the ball" topic: ...


Thanks for that! My wife and I were talking about that concept recently. Terminology, visualisation, reality. They don't always match up, especially when trying to convey things to another person.

To quote Michael Phelps quoting someone else, "Performance is reality."

Now I must be quite--again--to allow the thread to end.

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#134077 - 08/28/10 11:15 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
IBowlPaul1969 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 08/14/10
Posts: 54
A/S/L: 41, M, Fort Wayne
Don't give up! Just don't stress about it, you will learn after a while. It took me a long time to develop the release that I have now, but it works really well for me.
Get a nerf football and toss it in the air with an underhand release, don't think about it, just play catch, put on your headphones if you have them and relax.
When you throw your bowling ball (and I don't care if you toss it 1 m.p.h. the first few times) just feel the weight of the ball on your finger tips as you swing through the shot. Put a piece of white tape on your axis point, try to make it look at you as the ball goes down the lane. Once you can do that the ball will be hooking like crazy.
HAVE FUN, KEEP TRYING!!
_________________________
High Game: 300
High Series: 838
High Average: 229
Dexter SST shoes
Brunswick balls 15#

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#134081 - 08/29/10 06:24 AM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: aoiten]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Originally Posted By: aoiten
Clearly you don't want anyone to see you until you are doing better. Understandable. .... Looking forward to your future thread and video.
Can I be honest? These comments apply pretty much to me. I doubt you'll ever see a video of me.

OTOH, I must say my game has improved tremendously from all the advice I've read here, not only from the elite bowlers / coaches but also from other members like me (including me smile blush thumbsup ).

To anyone who "just doesn't get it", I would say watch a ton of videos, watch other bowlers in your league, join a league if you're not in one, and spend $50 on some coaching.

a note to all beginners, brought to mind by minor millikin's post - remember that bowling is more like a trip through Arkansas or Kentucky, with a lot of ups and downs, not like a trip up Pike's Peak - all up. We all have good days and bad days, and for me, both kinds of day make me want to come back for more! And keep up the visualizations, MM!

Work hard, have fun, and good bowling!


_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#134086 - 08/29/10 12:33 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
Vic44 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 800
A/S/L: 51/ Male/ Colorado Springs CO
Sorry.. thread goes on. I also wish I could hook the ball more, but I need to break down and find/pay a respected coach to help me. Not sure I want a video out here myself.
I am not overly proud of the swing I have now, and have to humble myself for change and also to take the constructive criticism.
I also do not have high tech equipment to get a decent video together for people to look at. Also, for the average I carry, I feel my swing is far too simple and not free enough.

I guess it all boils down to whether I want to reconstruct my swing at the age of 45 (kinda old now, dont ya think? smile ) or if a tinker or two would be better?

And so it goes..
CHEERS!
_________________________
Storm Sync, NVD & a worn-out Widow for spares.

Career HG: 300 (3)
Career HS: 772
Career High Avg(09-10) 217.
15-16 Avg: 189

Last year? Not pretty. No high scores worth posting from 15-16. But good times ahead. smile


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#134091 - 08/29/10 04:11 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
For those who don't want to APPEAR on video, you could just record the ball motion on the lane. That way general advice could be given. You could always cover yourself by claiming that you MEANT to do that. haha

At least have video that you can watch yourself. It's easy to compare yourself to someone who is better but similar. Or to compare what you WANT to do with what you are actually doing.

I must be getting old because 45 doesn't sound so old. Change is good for the brain. And, boy, was my brain loving the challenge of a super-sticky approach today!

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#134093 - 08/29/10 04:47 PM Re: Can't seem to hook the ball [Re: Doty]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Originally Posted By: aoiten
For those who don't want to APPEAR on video, you could just record the ball motion on the lane. That way general advice could be given.


No real advice could be given with just video of ball motion. Without seeing the whole approach, nobody can truly say what needs to be changed. The ball could look like it has good rotation but what if accuracy is the bigger issue?

Originally Posted By: aoiten
At least have video that you can watch yourself. It's easy to compare yourself to someone who is better but similar. Or to compare what you WANT to do with what you are actually doing.


I agree, even if you can't post the video you can actually see what you are doing compared to what you think you are doing. Every time I see video of myself it's different than I think I was doing.
_________________________
Calvin's Highs
Career
HG:300
HS:763

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