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#132609 - 08/02/10 11:33 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: JBB817]
13strikes Offline
Bantam

Registered: 08/02/10
Posts: 17
A/S/L: 58/M/Philippines
jbb this is 13strikes need a skid and big flip layout for my smash zone any layout tips or trick layout for medium and oily condition. i stand on 25 and laydown on 19 down 15 sort of that angle. thanks again

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#132611 - 08/03/10 12:09 AM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: 13strikes]
JBB817 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 95
A/S/L: 21/M/NJ
Hey 13strikes, I am not really that well acquainted with ball layouts beyond what my Pro Shop tells me. I would suggest you ask your Pro Shop or someone more experienced on the forums here for advice. What I can say is that the Smash Zone because of it's fast revving core is somewhere in the middle ground between skid-snap and a smooth curve. I personally try to stay away from huge skid snap reactions just because they are too hard for me to control, so the Smash Zone really was the best fit for me at the time. What I do know is that with my current layout/release, if I give it a lot of axis tilt the ball will push pretty far but the core will get the ball into a roll pretty fast off the dry, making the sharp move you're looking for. Where I personally think this ball shines is giving it little axis tilt and straightening up my line. The ball doesn't make as sharp a turn but it will read the midlane and make a strong move off the dry. I'm sorry I can't be more help on the layout specifics.
_________________________
HG: 267
HS: 631

15lb Cell Pearl
14lb Hy-Road
15lb Slingshot
14lb T-Zone

Virtual Gravity, Smash Zone, Freeze - Retired

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#132624 - 08/03/10 06:21 AM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: JBB817]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
They changed my pitch from 1/8" reverse to 3/16" forward, put less bevel on it and changed the oval slightly. At first, with all that change I had problems letting go of the ball, but after I got used to it, it was smooth as butter. I still have to think "LET GO", but thinking that is much better than "oh [censored]... the ball will fall off" *GRAB* I'll be posting a video sometime soon after I've had a chance to work on my swing and get used to the new fit.


Don't be surprised if you don't have to go another 1/4" forward from where you are before all is said and done. You still need to learn to relax to the point where you don't need to think "Let Go" and the ball just comes off on it's own. I'm glad you are on the right track, post a video so I can see if you need to make other adjustments.

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#132825 - 08/05/10 08:17 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: JBB817]
JBB817 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 95
A/S/L: 21/M/NJ
Here's a quick update; I went today to pick up the 15lb cell pearl I had redrilled and threw a couple games to test it out. I'm happy with the move up in weight, it doesn't feel noticeably heavier than the 14s, but the carry is way better.

Not a full out practice but I want to see if this is the right idea of what to do when I do practice. The lanes were pretty fried since it was the end of open bowling / right before league was starting so I apologize for every shot going brooklyn and rolling out at 30'. 5 shots: first I think has the best release. Second shot I think is the best legwork. Third shot is kind of eh. Last two shots are with my spare ball to compare how much the reverse pitch vs. forward pitch affects my swing.

_________________________
HG: 267
HS: 631

15lb Cell Pearl
14lb Hy-Road
15lb Slingshot
14lb T-Zone

Virtual Gravity, Smash Zone, Freeze - Retired

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#133000 - 08/09/10 08:55 AM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: JBB817]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
The release is 10x better with the new pitch. You're still pulling it down, but you should see a much more consistent reaction with the softer landing.

Also, watch out for that balance arm coming across the front of your body during the backswing. Straight down the lane is fine, but you don't want it actually coming across your body.
_________________________
CMGBB - Bowling tips
BowlSK - Bowling score keeper and stats tracker
My BowlSK

That my boy... that's pro quality.

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#133027 - 08/09/10 04:10 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: cgeorg]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
I agree with cg, you look much better, you can see the ball grab earlier when you lift up on the ball, so work more on not pulling the arm down, use your left arm instead and don't let it go past the target line like cg suggested. Ideally you don't want to hear the ball hit the lane, this may require a pinch more bending your hips into the slide, and a smoother release. Keep up the good work, post more video when you are ready, shoot from the bowling side from head to toe from start to finish too.

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#133031 - 08/09/10 04:43 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: cgeorg]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
cgeorg, why don't you want your balance arm to swing across your body? Fagan does that quite a bit if memory serves me.

JBB,

Your style kinda reminds me of Maximum Bob and TJ. I don't mind the high backswing all that much. Some people are just that flexible and can bowl with that much lean. Your swing looks pretty free to me aside from the forcing the ball down. You can see that cause on certain shots you'll cut your backswing height down. There is also this thing you do with your feet. You don't exactly stay on the tightrope. After your cross step you don't continue to walk the line. But that might be nothing. The grabbing and forcing of the backswing will cause all sort of issues, mostly [censored] up your timing and robbing you of ball speed and revs.

Here's the funny thing. I'm like the exact opposite of you. I score pretty well on dry lanes. I'm pretty good at taking hand out my ball or increasing my speed to traverse dry conditions. I have trouble going across the lane though.


_________________________
Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.


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#133032 - 08/09/10 04:51 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
It sometimes barely crossed his body when he first came on tour. It doesn't any more. The point of getting your balance arm in front of you is to help open the shoulders. You don't even need to have it pointing straight down the lane to get your shoulders parallel to your target line, so why go even farther?
_________________________
CMGBB - Bowling tips
BowlSK - Bowling score keeper and stats tracker
My BowlSK

That my boy... that's pro quality.

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#133053 - 08/09/10 10:01 PM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: cgeorg]
JBB817 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 95
A/S/L: 21/M/NJ
Alright, well I'm glad to know I'm on the right track. As I probably could have guessed, CoachJim was right...after I lightened up my grip the ball started slipping off again. So I went back tonight and I moved my pitch another 1/8" forward. He actually drilled the hole a bit too large but I had some magic carpet samples with me so I threw that in. This combination worked great and I'm hoping this will be the last pitch change but we'll see if I need some more forward.

I'm going to keep focusing on freeing up that swing and getting a smoother release. I think legwork and not pulling down the ball are going to be the two main points right now. I'll also try to keep that balance arm from crossing over as Cgeorg pointed out.

Demo I always sort of thought the tightrope idea was mainly for the first step to get out of the way of the ball. I could probably try to keep my left foot in closer but I find it easier to just account for the slight drift left it causes.
_________________________
HG: 267
HS: 631

15lb Cell Pearl
14lb Hy-Road
15lb Slingshot
14lb T-Zone

Virtual Gravity, Smash Zone, Freeze - Retired

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#133078 - 08/10/10 06:49 AM Re: Working on Straight Game [Re: JBB817]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Pointing the balance shoulder toward your target helps you develop a feel for your target line and break point. Letting your arm swing past the target line causes the shoulder to over turn and lose the feel for the target line. I find it easier to be accurate by not letting your shoulder turn past your target line.

If the arm goes past the target line, but the shoulder doesn't and you are using your shoulder to feel the line, not the arm (I assume Fagan does this because his left arm is so lose that he can't be using it for feeling the target line). Pete Weber uses his arm for feeling the shoulder in line with the target line, many people do this different, what ever works for you is what's best.

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