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#132797 - 08/05/10 12:50 PM Re: 200 avg [Re: Scott Gannon]
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
I find it hard to be impressed by folks that are pretty well hammered by the 3rd frame of the 1st game and still walk up and string strikes. On a THS, if they have equipment, speed, and power, they can spray the shot from 5 to 15 and still carry. There are also serious folks who roll the ball well, can hit any mark consistently, and make their spares. Both carry the same 220 average. Tougher conditions and tournaments set them apart. Tougher shots lose the "sprayers" and the sandbaggers and the good bowlers show up. Just my opinion;)
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#132810 - 08/05/10 02:47 PM Re: 200 avg [Re: fredboost]
Scott Gannon Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 967
A/S/L: 51/M/California
I agree with you Jack.

In many ways it has taken the aspect I used to love about the game away. Actually it hasn’t for me because I just use one bowling ball and pretty much have to approach the lanes the way I used to way back when. I have to make adjustments as the night goes along and accuracy is important. Meanwhile the guys you mention just pull another ball out of their bag and hit that wide target area and they are good to go.

I knew just how much the game had changed when shortly after I came back into it in 2006 after 14 years off when getting a new ball my sister told me “You shouldn’t have to work that hard” and she indicated I should just be able to get the ball in a certain area for success. She recommended at least 2 strike balls, one for heavy oil and one for lighter oil (she said 3 would be better though adding a ball for dry lanes) and a spare ball but I have resisted. Part of the fun and challenge for me is trying to make it work, not tossing my ball in a general area all night.

Thankfully the lanes I bowl at are pretty tough and there are only a handful of guys who regardless of equipment can average over 200. That keeps competition pretty tight and prevents any one team from running away with the league crown time after time.
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Summer 2012-League Average-179, HG-224, HS-595
Fall 2012-2013-League Average-181, HG-237, HS-624
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#132811 - 08/05/10 02:54 PM Re: 200 avg [Re: JackZ]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
Originally Posted By: JackZ
I find it hard to be impressed by folks that are pretty well hammered by the 3rd frame of the 1st game and still walk up and string strikes. On a THS, if they have equipment, speed, and power, they can spray the shot from 5 to 15 and still carry. There are also serious folks who roll the ball well, can hit any mark consistently, and make their spares. Both carry the same 220 average. Tougher conditions and tournaments set them apart. Tougher shots lose the "sprayers" and the sandbaggers and the good bowlers show up. Just my opinion;)


I couldn't agree more.

_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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#132812 - 08/05/10 03:02 PM Re: 200 avg [Re: Dennis Michael]
VampyreBowler Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 506
A/S/L: 45/Male/Thurmont, MD
Dennis, I have to agree with you there. When my dad bowled while in the army, he was bowling 1 or 2 nights a week. I was never interested in watching or even care about it. I started bowling about 12 years ago (41 years old now). His highest set ever was like 587 and maybe had a handful of games over 200. Within 5 years of me starting bowling, I was averaging 200+ and the last couple of years over 220+. The game is still same as it was but the equipment used nowadays makes it easier to score higher now.


Edited by VampyreBowler (08/05/10 03:03 PM)
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Current Avgs: 218
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#132831 - 08/05/10 09:38 PM Re: 200 avg [Re: VampyreBowler]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
When I was a kid, 200 was the pinnacle. That is what I wanted to get to. Now, if I don't average over 200 on a night, I am upset. I would have to agree that 220 is the new 200. I have changed so many things over the last few years that my average has suffered and I have still been hovering around 210. Now its stand left, throw right, watch it hook and strike. I'm not saying that it doesn't take skill to be over 200 but a lot less than it did 20 years ago.
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#132849 - 08/06/10 06:22 AM Re: 200 avg [Re: General Pounder]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
I could easily say today's modern bowling balls are responsible for my overall increase in average from 20 years ago. I was always a good mid 190's bowler, but could never quite take that next step over the 200 barrier. Now, i'm a good 215+ bowler, but just short of that next step over the 220 barrier. So, this time i'm taking lessons to help me get that last 10% out of my game. Anyway...

One thing that is different from 20 years ago is that I am now using a plastic ball for spares. I used to miss several or more single pins 7 pins per series that used to cost me that 600 series. Then again, 20 years ago, a plastic ball would hook too much to be of use as a spare ball. Now, with the help of a plastic ball and more oil on the lanes, I cover 99% of my single pin 7 pin spares. Thus, the real reason my average is now 20 pins higher 20 years later. Overall, I have a better spare game than I did 20 years ago, thanks to an old technology plastic ball.

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#132858 - 08/06/10 08:53 AM Re: 200 avg [Re: leftykev]
VFF57 Offline
Legend

Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 1636
A/S/L: 50's/M/NJ
The biggest factor for weighting an average against skill is the lane conditions. If you're bowling on a sport shot, reverse block, etc. then a 200+ is still in line with the 70 - 80's standard. The modern bowling ball technology helps on tough conditions, but you still need plenty of skill to score big.

What makes achieving a 200+ easier these days is the centers laying down a ton of oil in the center of the lane while keeping the outsides drier creating bumpers. These conditions coupled with the use of modern balls create a big window of area to play and as long as the pins carry there will be a potential for big scores. Most centers want bowlers to score big so they're happy and keep coming back. That's why most 200+ house shot bowlers do poorly when they go to tournaments or bowl on sport conditions. Reality sets in...
_________________________
League:
High Game 300
High Series 803
-------------------------
Motiv: Raptor P7
MoRich: Aggressive Motion
Storm: VG,Crossroad,NP
Hammer: Spike,Psycho,Raw Anger,
Cherry Vibe,Taboo Plastic/Spare,
Black Hammer
Columbia: White Dot

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#132860 - 08/06/10 09:34 AM Re: 200 avg [Re: VFF57]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9620
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Agreed VFF57. The shot bowled on affects every bowler. But, the name of the game is to score, and animal patterns is not what most people want or even see in league. Only a select few will choose that route.

But, I still have to give credit to the bowler who can roll 12 consistent balls, maintain his speed, release, balance, accuracy and all those other things the body can do.

Today's equipment has opened the lane and increased the margin for error requiring less bodily control then before. When a Pro has 4-5 boards of room for his ball, and can vary the revs to carry with another ball, equipment has controlled the average increases.

Look at the new ball ads. The new cover handles different lane conditions. The new core changes the ball rotation. And, every ball shows the ball track. None of this was possible back when.
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#132906 - 08/07/10 05:21 AM Re: 200 avg [Re: Dennis Michael]
ljocampo Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 56
A/S/L: Male Oxford, NY
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
SpareMe, I am sure you will agree that the 200 level was more of an achievement back in the late 60's and early 70's then it is today.


I'd say... For me it was. I was a consistent 220 bowler using equipment that's worse than today's houses use. But it was also simpler. With today's technology I'm lucky to break 180, but know once I learn the new techniques I can get back where I was.

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Today, with synthetic lanes, THS oil patterns, balls with asymmetrical weights, banking shots to the pocket etal, there are many, many more 200+ averages. And, I don't think the 200 threshhold is as important. IMO, that bar has been risen to 225 or higher.


Maybe... For the avid or determined bowler who want to win tournaments, 225+ is the goal. For the rest of use 200 will work just fine. grin

Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
Technology has changed the game, so only those of us who bowled before and after can see the difference.


Your right on the money and the easier conditions today make a lot of young people not appreciate how difficult it was back in the day. blush My kids are considering an iceberg for me. But that's progress!

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#132911 - 08/07/10 08:35 AM Re: 200 avg [Re: ljocampo]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9620
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
ljocampo, I quit bowling after the '78-79 season to raise kids. Someone had to stay home and teach the wife how to change diapers. And, they weren't disposable. They got cleaned too.

I returned after 24 years, and the world of bowling had changed. People talked about oil on the lanes, particle covers, asymmetric weights, rotation, axis and a whole bunch of terms that I had never heard of. Now there were strokers and crankers and people who could use the whole width of the lane. This was all new.

Took a few years to just learn what the Junior bowlers already knew. There is actually a science behind bowling today, and physics in ball layouts and releases. I had to go back to school.

I didn't know about dry conditions. And, I looked for the darker boards down lane for targets. They were all the same color, and I thought I was bowling on my grandmother's linoleum kitchen floor. They no longer have to close the house for a couple of weeks during XMas Holidays to sand the lanes.

Wow, that was a shock. Took a couple of years to just be conversant with other bowlers in lingo and terminology. And, taking longer to compete at the level I was used to. Don't think it will happen any more.

Bowlers today, say technology has improved the game. After a few years of this, I still wonder. Cause, they don't know what they have improved from. So, I just go with the flow.

I grew up in Chicago. And, in 1970, I think, I was selected for the House travel team. This was quite an honor for me. It meant that the mentors who I had as a teen were now my teammates. The House paid for my ABC membership and all local tourney fees. It was just prestige for them. A local Auto Dealer gave us cars to drive with their name on the door. And, we got spending cash for food and overnight stay. Any winnings went into a pool that we consumed weekly. Leftovers at year end were split by the team.

The Chicago Classic Travel League was on its way out then, so I came in at the tail end. But, it was really exciting for me to bowl against the local pros.

Kinda cool for a kid with a 200+ average to bowl with pros on an equal basis.

Now, I know quite a few aspirants in their early 20's who bowl regionally, and none of them are under 220 average. A night at our house is not complete without someone coming close or hitting 300. This is an exciting time to bowl. Have fun.
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Legends - L/M New Terminator 15#
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