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#132497 - 07/31/10 10:20 PM Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt
ljocampo Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 56
A/S/L: Male Oxford, NY
Hi my name is Leo. I'm 62, and this is my 1st post here. I've read hundreds of posts here and many others elsewhere and I'm just getting back into bowling as a senior. In my day, I bowled 220 with house balls, and never was technical about it. I just threw the first 15# ball that fit, down and in. Now, I do have a fairly good grasp of Mo's duel angle system. I have 2 new balls un-drilled (Mutant Cell Pearl 13# and Natural 13#). I know how the find my PAP (I have a Pro Sect, Armadillo, etc.), but I have no other technical fit & style specs to know if these balls are right for me or just nice paper weights. I live in an area where drillers know more about cows and tractors, so I'm learning everything I can for when I travel to a real Pro Shop.

My questions are: How do I find out my ball speed and rev rate? Whether I have a high or low axis tilt? I believe I'm stroker, oil track about 3/4" from thumb, and left eye dominant, but right handed bowler. I have good grasp of the fundamentals of hook, releases, lines, friction, and oil conditions. But, how is the best way to get speed, rev rate, axis tilt here in rural NY? I want to use Mo's system to match me to the ball.

Sorry for the long post. I wanted to introduce myself to the community.

Leo

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A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#132499 - 07/31/10 11:19 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: ljocampo]
Jay R. Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
A/S/L: 21/M/Tacoma, WA
Welcome to the site and back to bowling! I believe bowlspot.com has instructions on how to find your speed and rev rate. You will need to use a video camera though, and enter in the figures that they want.

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#132501 - 07/31/10 11:33 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: Jay R.]
ljocampo Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 56
A/S/L: Male Oxford, NY
Thanks Jay, I'll check it out... but video cameras can be a problem for me.

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#132508 - 08/01/10 01:04 AM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: ljocampo]
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
Hi Leo, and welcome to the community:)

You seem to have really done your homework on this. I second what Jay said and I'd like to add that if you have a laptop, a webcam(some newer laptops come with them, bought separately they cost maybe $35 or so) is an inexpensive way to get video. I got one as a birthday gift and it's been a real help both for that and talking to our older daughter. Good luck with this and keep us posted:)
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#132531 - 08/01/10 07:10 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: JackZ]
ljocampo Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 56
A/S/L: Male Oxford, NY
Jack, thanks for the suggestion. After your reply, I thought that cell phone cameras that take video will work too. I'll check into finding the best way for me.

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#132536 - 08/01/10 08:43 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: ljocampo]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9710
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
My doubles partner and I have taken videos of each other with our cell phones when one is having trouble. It has corrected a few problems for me.
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#132543 - 08/02/10 12:08 AM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: ljocampo]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Originally Posted By: ljocampo
But, how is the best way to get speed, rev rate, axis tilt here in rural NY?


Throw a ball and take the necessary measurements.
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Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.


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#132571 - 08/02/10 10:52 AM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
TenPin_ Offline
Regional Pro Contender

Registered: 12/27/07
Posts: 505
A/S/L: 32/M/TX
Leo, you can find your axis tilt without shooting video by using the armadillo. Roll your ball a few times until you feel you are rolling it well, then use a grease / wax pencil to trace the first oil line on your ball (the oil line closest to the thumb and fingers - trace at least 1/3 the way around the ball if not more). Next put the armadillo on the ball and line up the oil line you traced with the closest matching line on the armadillo. The dashed line is a full roller (13.5"), and for every 1/2" less you add 3.33. So if you have a measurement of 12.5" you would have about 7 of tilt. Here is a chart so you won't have to do the math http://www.matthewchase.com/forums/axistiltchart.pdf

Accurately finding your axis rotation, ball speed, and rev rate will require using a video camera. Unfortunately I don't think there are any camera phones at the moment that will capture high enough quality / frame rates to allow you to get all of these accurately. The key word here is accurately, you could probably get some idea of these measurements with a camera phone but how accurate they would be is anyone's guess.

Here are a couple of video tutorials on how to shoot and measure these specs.

Video Shooting Tips


Tilt / Rotation / Revs / Speed Measurement
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USBC Bronze Coach

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#132586 - 08/02/10 06:14 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: TenPin_]
ljocampo Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 07/31/10
Posts: 56
A/S/L: Male Oxford, NY
Wow TenPin, thanks for taking the time to explain that to me. I didn't know you could estimate axis with a armadillo. I'll check it out soon. Yes you are right the quality of cell phone video won't give me accuracy. I'll need to borrow or rent a video camera and use the video tutorials.

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#132590 - 08/02/10 06:46 PM Re: Question on ball speed, rev rate, & axis tilt [Re: ljocampo]
J_w73 Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/08/08
Posts: 1032
A/S/L: 37/M/Northern CA
As far as speed, you can just time how long the ball takes to get down the lane.. Take the number of seconds and divide it into 41..
so if it takes 3 seconds to make it to the pins .. 41/3 =13.6 mph
It won't be exact but it will give you an overall estimate of the speed of the ball..Do a few throws and have someone time the ball with a stop watch to get an average time...
Use a plastic ball so that the trajectory will be the straightest possible and the ball will change speed the least as it goes down the lane..

like I said..it won't be exact but it will let you know if you are throwing the ball 13mph or 20 mph if you have no clue about what your speed is...


Edited by J_w73 (08/02/10 06:47 PM)
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 4 3/4 x 1/4 up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+

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