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#129912 - 06/13/10 06:19 PM Reverse Grip
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
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Say you have a ball that you roll thumbless. Said ball hooks massively. Then you find that, if you reverse your grip and actually roll the ball with the thumbhole in the front, the ball will roll fairly straight for spares. Would it be legal to do so?

Initially I though, yes, why not? Then I thought about the rules for static weights and the proposed 1" from palm CG rule. Is there a rule that would prevent the use of a reverse grip?

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#129917 - 06/13/10 09:01 PM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: aoiten]
Dennis Michael Offline
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All holes drilled in the ball have to be covered by the delivery hand. Even if the thumb is not used.
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#129918 - 06/13/10 09:20 PM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: Dennis Michael]
BigFootkid Offline
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Registered: 06/10/10
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Now, what if you only put your thumb in your thumb hole? Your fingers will be over the holes, but not in them. I saw a trick shot that way and the ball just skid until it found a dry surface and started its forward motion. Would that way be legal?
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#129920 - 06/13/10 10:09 PM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: Dennis Michael]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
All holes drilled in the ball have to be covered by the delivery hand. Even if the thumb is not used.


Ah, so if there is no thumbhole at all, then maybe the weights would come into play?

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#129930 - 06/14/10 02:38 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: aoiten]
Jay R. Offline
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Registered: 05/03/08
Posts: 1300
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There's the static weight thing, as well as what Dennis said. If there was no thumb hole I'm pretty sure your "grip center" is the bridge. As long as the ball was legal both ways and there's no thumb hole I'm sure you could flip it.

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#129945 - 06/14/10 09:12 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: Jay R.]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
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A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Don't see anything stopping you from doing this without a thumb hole in the rules. It basically is taking advantage of the offset weight favoring the opposite motion of your delivery hand. Like a righty using a ball drilled for a lefty.
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#129946 - 06/14/10 09:26 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Originally Posted By: Dennis Michael
All holes drilled in the ball have to be covered by the delivery hand. Even if the thumb is not used.


No, you just have to show that they can all be used for gripping. They don't have to be covered.

Static weights would be the tough part - left/right and finger/thumb weight can only be 1oz difference, but top/bottom can be 3oz. So, you could be swinging that 3 oz into one of the other 2 zones. But, does the grip center change if you have a drilled thumbhole, but throw with the grips upside down?


Personally, I could not fit comfortably my middle finger into my ring finger grip, so it wouldn't matter.
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#129950 - 06/14/10 10:40 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: cgeorg]
Dennis Michael Offline
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Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9809
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
From USBC rules discussion:
a bowler must only be able to reasonably demonstrate that all gripping holes can be used for gripping purposes simultaneously.

The demonstration showed the thumb hole covered by a thumb laying on the ball. Therefore, indicating it was in the grip area. So, if the thumb hole was outside of the grip, it is an illegal throw. If the thumb hole is able to be covered, it is legal. You cannot simultaneously grip a thumb hole if you turn the ball around.
BTW, this has to be done with 1 hand only, the delivery hand.

There was no discussion on not having a thumb hole.
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#129951 - 06/14/10 10:40 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: Jay R.]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Jay R.
There's the static weight thing, as well as what Dennis said. If there was no thumb hole I'm pretty sure your "grip center" is the bridge. As long as the ball was legal both ways and there's no thumb hole I'm sure you could flip it.


OK, what about this: Place the CG around the fingerholes and call the thumbhole an X-hole, not used for gripping? Or just have a real X-hole that's no where near where the thumb would be?

Well, I think if there are rules that affect the reverse grip, they could be worked around fairly.

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#129952 - 06/14/10 10:45 AM Re: Reverse Grip [Re: cgeorg]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: cgeorg

Personally, I could not fit comfortably my middle finger into my ring finger grip, so it wouldn't matter.


Right, the fingerholes would have to be more symmetrical in size, pitch, and position, but the benefit would be two reactions from one ball.

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