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#129521 - 06/07/10 08:57 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: ijohn83]
trekguy Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 783
A/S/L: 56/M/Mn
Originally Posted By: ijohn83
Originally Posted By: trekguy
Focus on the wrist and let the ball fall on its own in the backswing. Focus on the wrist alone. Let it fall.

I hope this gives you a little different thought process about this. You are just one light-bulb moment away from a major breakthrough.



Thanks everyone. I do sometimes wonder if a light bulb moment will ever happen. This week I am purposely going to release the ball higher to give me more room for wrist and finger position under the ball. I will post a Video about Thursday for you guys/gals to judge improvement or not on my finger /wrist position.

~ John


Well, I suppose if that works for you. ?? I don't see any reason to elevate yourself at the foul line like that. Your approach is good, don't mess it up because your wrist is flopping early. wink

There's already plenty of room to keep the wrist in a good, strong position. You just have to DO it.
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#129522 - 06/07/10 09:34 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: trekguy]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Originally Posted By: trekguy
Well, I suppose if that works for you. ?? I don't see any reason to elevate yourself at the foul line like that. Your approach is good, don't mess it up because your wrist is flopping early. wink

There's already plenty of room to keep the wrist in a good, strong position. You just have to DO it.


I don't know if it will work. I just like to have the ball low at release and think I might be extending my fingers wrongly to get the ball there. I still will want to be low and "land" the ball like an airplane but I need to try something else to get the fingers below the equator for now. It may just be a just a matter of time but I have been trying for a long time now and have never seen the fingers correct on an actual release. I'll know soon enough.

~ John

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#129526 - 06/07/10 12:44 PM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: ijohn83]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
John, the only way you are going to get the fingers there is to work at it, and work at that alone. If you want to fix the release, work on the release and the release alone. If you stand at the foul line and work on the release you will fix the issue, right now you are just working to many things at one time and your mind cannot focus on mechanics at the speed at which the body is moving with all of the moving parts. You have to separate things out and work on them one at a time, at a slower speed.

If you try to stand taller, you are going to be focused on that, which means your brain has to try to stand taller and release the ball with the fingers in a strong position. Eliminate everything but the fingers and your brain will get the message faster.

I understand its no fun to stand at the line and work on release. Its boring, it makes bowling a "chore", but in all reality isn't the definition of a chore something that you have to do "repetitively" that you do not want to do? Therefore, by bowling regular games and working on your release you have created a chore for yourself. You have to do it every time you are at the lanes, constantly thinking about the release, because your release is always what you are trying to get right. Your brain never gets a break, to just go out and do what it knows how to do, because right now it simply doesn't know what it knows how to do because you have not taught it yet. If you program the release, and the release alone, into your brain when you do a full approach you can worry about something else, or just bowl, and you will know the release is correct. Right now you are just over-thinking every shot and its prolonging the chore of learning what you are attempting to learn.

Its like math, you cannot expect to do Calculus before you learn algebra. You cannot learn how to solve problems if you cannot do division. You have to separate each piece and learn them individually. You don't learn how to multiply by doing the "distributive properties", you learn how to multiply by simply multiplying over and over again. So don't learn how to release by doing your approach, learn it by doing it and repeating it until it happens without having to think twice.
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#129527 - 06/07/10 01:03 PM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: sk8shorty01]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
I know but... you do work difficuly math problems from both ends. I have improved with my release into the cushion at home & also standing at the foul line. Bad luck with one step drill - still need to work more there. Full approach helps with ball weight location on index finger which helps release

Originally Posted By: sk8shorty01
John, the only way you are going to get the fingers there is to work at it, and work at that alone. If you want to fix the release, work on the release and the release alone. If you stand at the foul line and work on the release you will fix the issue, right now you are just working to many things at one time and your mind cannot focus on mechanics at the speed at which the body is moving with all of the moving parts. You have to separate things out and work on them one at a time, at a slower speed.

If you try to stand taller, you are going to be focused on that, which means your brain has to try to stand taller and release the ball with the fingers in a strong position. Eliminate everything but the fingers and your brain will get the message faster.

I understand its no fun to stand at the line and work on release. Its boring, it makes bowling a "chore", but in all reality isn't the definition of a chore something that you have to do "repetitively" that you do not want to do? Therefore, by bowling regular games and working on your release you have created a chore for yourself. You have to do it every time you are at the lanes, constantly thinking about the release, because your release is always what you are trying to get right. Your brain never gets a break, to just go out and do what it knows how to do, because right now it simply doesn't know what it knows how to do because you have not taught it yet. If you program the release, and the release alone, into your brain when you do a full approach you can worry about something else, or just bowl, and you will know the release is correct. Right now you are just over-thinking every shot and its prolonging the chore of learning what you are attempting to learn.

Its like math, you cannot expect to do Calculus before you learn algebra. You cannot learn how to solve problems if you cannot do division. You have to separate each piece and learn them individually. You don't learn how to multiply by doing the "distributive properties", you learn how to multiply by simply multiplying over and over again. So don't learn how to release by doing your approach, learn it by doing it and repeating it until it happens without having to think twice.

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#129528 - 06/07/10 01:28 PM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: ijohn83]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Finally I'm seeing some improvement, congratulations It looks like you have worked hard on your swing and have stopped forcing it so much.

What I see you still need to work on is your power step needs to go in front of your left foot then your left foot needs to slide around the power step. This will get your trail leg out of the way of the ball and allow you to get better leverage and achieve the finger position you are looking for.

You might also want to experiment with holding the ball in closer to your body at the start, then push the whole arm assembly forward with your right foot without letting the elbow straighten, keep it in the same position aa at the start and move the ball and arm together and then let the ball drop into the swing from a higher position to achieve more ball speed.

Keep working on it you are vastly improved over the previous vids.

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#129543 - 06/08/10 12:43 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: CoachJim]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Forget what I said about not getting so low and only working on release. Didn't make any difference today on my release; Two separate things.
I guess I need to look at the Videos of the "one step" drill and get my release working at that point.

Originally Posted By: CoachJim
What I see you still need to work on is your power step needs to go in front of your left foot then your left foot needs to slide around the power step. This will get your trail leg out of the way of the ball and allow you to get better leverage and achieve the finger position you are looking for.


I had been working on this a while back. I think I will go back like you said and keep working the power step to be in front of the left foot.

Originally Posted By: CoachJim
... to achieve more ball speed.


I had to chuckle when I read that.

Again - Thanks all for all the encouragement & insight & patients.

~ John

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#129549 - 06/08/10 08:34 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: ijohn83]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted By: CoachJim
... to achieve more ball speed.



I had to chuckle when I read that.


The reason I wrote that is when people cut their swing down like you have in order to get the feel for a free swing, and they need more speed, the initial instinct is to rear back and throw the ball harder instead of just holding the ball in closer and higher and let it drop from higher up, but still just let the ball swing. Even keeping the speed down on the ball you should hold the ball in closer to your body to keep the ball feeling as light as possible.

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#129553 - 06/08/10 08:58 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: CoachJim]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Originally Posted By: CoachJim


The reason I wrote that is when people cut their swing down like you have in order to get the feel for a free swing, and they need more speed, the initial instinct is to rear back and throw the ball harder instead of just holding the ball in closer and higher and let it drop from higher up, but still just let the ball swing. Even keeping the speed down on the ball you should hold the ball in closer to your body to keep the ball feeling as light as possible.


So the location of the elbows at set up should only be in front of the body at the highest ball position, not always wedged in the hip like Norm Duke says?

~ John

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#129557 - 06/08/10 09:23 AM Re: ijohn83 (06-02-10) [Re: ijohn83]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
It depends on the length of your arms, if your arms are the right length to get enough downward momentum doing it anyway, then feel free to do it what ever way you want, but when you are going from a stopped position and the ball heads back, not down then you are losing momentum. You want the ball to fall down, then back, this will add enough momentum to the swing where you don't have to pull the ball back to get the momentum you need to get the ball down the lane.

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