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#128800 - 05/27/10 12:40 AM Thumb hole either hangs or slips
bitbytebit Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 23
A/S/L: 35/M/MO
I have an odd issue with my thumb hole I'm trying to solve, where it basically slips if I don't grip but hangs if I use tape till it doesn't slip. The odd thing I'm asking about is what I just discovered. When I put a piece of white tape in the front with a thicker 1/8 inch portion about an inch down into the thumb hole so it is right where my thumb curves back and the end pad part is , then my thumb no longer slips when I have no grip pressure during a swing and releases without hanging. It seems if I force my thumb nail back into the back of the hole the same results occur but that hurts a bit and doesn't work consistently. I have something like 3/8 reverse pitch in my thumb, a 5" span in my ringer finger (shorter slightly in my middle finger), and an extra long thumb at 3" and it's knuckle is very big too so seems like this is part of the issue. When I snug the thumb with black tape in the back it just hangs completely, but using this white tape with the extra thick part down into the thumbhole for the end of my thumb to rest against seems to keep the thumb from hanging.

So is this a simple need more reverse pitch, like an 1/8" or something? Seems like that's kind of what I'm doing with that white tape addition, faking some more reverse pitch.

I'm in the process of getting a refitting of my grip right now from an old one to reduce my thumb issues and some finger issues. Got the finger issues cleared up, but seems my old grip had 4 5/8" span and even though I could clear the thumb hole easily it requires a very tight thumb hole and/or me gripping the ball too much. That is probably what has torn up my thumb mostly, the tighter thumb hole and gripping, to make up for the shorter span. I before that originally had a longer span but had the hang up issues similar to I'm having now, but a lot worse. I think the reverse pitch in my old ball is 3/8" too, same as new one.

So I'm guessing from my longer thumbs, and knuckle being like it is, and possibly pad of my thumb at end bending backwards curve like. This all means I need more reverse pitch than the charts say and generally people need. I've read all the stuff about forward pitch being great, or at least 0* pitch. I wish I could do that, but I'm suspecting I just can't do it since seems even like things are now I actually may need more reverse. Does anyone have any insight into why the white tape having a thicker part down into the thumbhole under end of the thumb pad length of the thumbnail seems to be helping?
Thanks,
Chris

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#128803 - 05/27/10 01:19 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: bitbytebit]
leftykev Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
Originally Posted By: bitbytebit
I have an odd issue with my thumb hole I'm trying to solve, where it basically slips if I don't grip but hangs if I use tape till it doesn't slip.


Something for you to consider,

When you feel your thumb slipping, you grip (or squeeze). So, you add tape till the ball doesn't slip, but you are still squeezing, and that is why you are hanging up in the thumb hole.

Because you can't trust you will have a smooth release with tape in the ball, you will continue to hang up in the ball.

DO NOT change the pitches in thumb. Teach yourself to learn to trust that the the thumb will come out of the thumb hole cleanly when tape is in the ball.

This is a difficult lesson to learn, but TRUST ME, your thumb will come out of the thumb hole cleanly with tape, if you take the time to teach yourself to trust.

Lastly, consider this: My thumb is almost 3" long, and the pitches on my thumb? I am 1/2 forward and 1/8 left.

It took me experiencing major thumb pain to understand I was squeezing the ball TOO MUCH.


Edited by leftykev (05/27/10 01:25 AM)

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#128804 - 05/27/10 01:25 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: leftykev]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
All I can say is that I have a 3" long thumb & a big hand; My thumb pitches are 7/16" forward, 5/16 right.

~ John

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#128805 - 05/27/10 02:24 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: bitbytebit]
bitbytebit Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 23
A/S/L: 35/M/MO
What's odd is that when I use black tape and make it snug, then when relaxed it sticks but when straightened to where the thumbnail is bending backwards it will come off. The problem is my thumbnail is pressured from this quite a bit and actually starting to show a black line slightly on it at the left side of the thumbnail. Basically when my thumb is relaxed my knuckle is actually sticks out quite a bit. When it is fully straightened out the knuckle goes away but the thumbnail sticks backwards and seems to get pushed hard against the back of the thumbhole on the way out (but it still comes out easier than when relaxed).

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#128806 - 05/27/10 02:55 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: bitbytebit]
okorimbo Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 280
A/S/L: 86,male,SF Bay Area
You have actually answered your question yourself. When the thumb is straight it comes out easily, when you bend it it sticks.The black line is a splinter hemorrhage, a very common occurrence in any thumb, but quite understandable in your case. White tape under the thumb pad helps you to feel the grip without squeezing. There are several excellent articles on the matter of tape in the thumb hole--in the BTM magazine. "The Six Basic Fundamentals" parts 2 & 3, and the current issue where the Round Table led by Mike Jasnau discusses tape with several top level bowlers and coaches. Read these articles and you'll gain a better understanding of tape and pitches. If you can't get the old BTM issues then try Ron's web site where he presents them all. By the way, my pitches are 7/16 forward, span 4 15/16,thumb 3".
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#128807 - 05/27/10 02:59 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: okorimbo]
okorimbo Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 280
A/S/L: 86,male,SF Bay Area
Left out -----Ron is Ron Clifton, web site is bowl4fun dot com.
_________________________
nan demo kamaimasen

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#128809 - 05/27/10 03:15 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: okorimbo]
bitbytebit Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 23
A/S/L: 35/M/MO
I'm suspecting that I basically am having to relearn how to swing/release the ball with a thumbhole that isn't setup like my old one. My old one was a shorter span with reverse pitch and a tight thumbhole that allowed me to freely swing mostly with a little bit of grip but had it smoothed out so it'd slip off easily at release. Well now I'm having to get used to a much more efficient better method it sounds like, but I'm definitely going to have to relearn a lot of what I've been doing. I'm glad that I've finally gotten to the point of being able to fix this problem though, so worth the effort for sure. Also I'm having to learn how to tape my thumbhole to work correctly, learning a lot of stuff already about that. One thing is figuring out the 1" tape vs. the 3/4" tape, which works for me. Also still trying to figure out how to use white tape in this new thumbhole setup, so far I haven't been able to do so without it feeling gummy and completely holding my thumb in the hole. I'm figuring it's just me figuring out things, maybe a slight adjustment will change that, also seeing different brands of tape are not equal (AMF black tape is oddly thin and tackier than ebonite tape).

The thing that I'm curious about is would it be jumping too far forward to try forward or 0* pitch in my thumbhole right now, which I've never experienced before. Since I'd like the thumbhole looser and sounds like with 0* or forward pitch I could avoid having to totally snug my thumb but also have it hold during my swing without any gripping. It just seems to me that drillers are scared of giving me anything less than some reverse pitch because of my thumb being long and so I've never tried that change. With all you guys using forward pitch and having long thumbs, it gives me more confidence that I could actually go that direction in the future which I had wondered if that was even a possibility. I would like it having 0* or forward pitch if it allowed me to have the thumbhole a little looser, and still be able to avoid gripping and not slip off my thumb.

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#128810 - 05/27/10 06:04 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: bitbytebit]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
My hand is pretty big also. 4 7/8 span and thumb almost 3".

I had (still have some) issues like you.

Apparently my thumb hole was bigger than it normally should.
I thought it was just the right size.
So now I put Ron MC on the back side and 2-3 white Ebonite tape in front, and it seems fine (well for the moment).

The problem is that when you bend your thumb: no matter how big the thumb whole is, it will feel snug to you because you will bend more.
_________________________
Power is nothing without control

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#128811 - 05/27/10 06:22 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: bitbytebit]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Bending thumb = Bad.

Putting a piece of Vise - Hada Patch Tape on the back of my thumb is helping train me not to bend it ("knuckling"). I can't quite go my 8 practice games without the tape loosing yet - but close & getting better.

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#128816 - 05/27/10 07:58 AM Re: Thumb hole either hangs or slips [Re: ijohn83]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
I have found that some of my IT slugs are tapered so that they're smaller deep inside than at the outside lip. That would seem fine, since my thumb is shaped that way, however it sometimes leads to this problem. If there's not enough tape, the ball flies right into the right gutter. I add half a tape and the ball lofts into the air.

I think the solution is to make sure the thumb hole is not tapered too much. IMHO, just a guess....
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"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
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