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#126292 - 04/24/10 03:33 PM Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs
beefers1 Offline
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I bought John Jowdy's book, Bowling Execution (2nd ed.), and one section particularly interested me. He talks about how an overly aggressive follow-through creates erratic ball reaction, especially with reactive resin balls. And he used Steve Jaros as an example of the advantages of a gentle follow through (the season after he converted to the "reaching up" follow-through, he won 3 titles, and the TOC the season after). However, Jaros didn't have a lot of revs in the first place, and even with the follow-through his rev rate is still much lower than a Robert Smith or Tommy Jones.

So what's the difference between having an overly aggressive follow through, as opposed to simply generating more revolutions without being aggressive? How come Jowdy was able to convert Smith and Amleto Monacelli to a less aggressive follow through "without sacrificing power"?

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#126294 - 04/24/10 05:39 PM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: beefers1]
Jay R. Offline
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My best answer, although it may not be correct, is that it's all about hand position and leverage.

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#126298 - 04/24/10 08:38 PM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: Jay R.]
gohuskies Offline
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Registered: 12/31/04
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There's a pair of great articles in the April & May issues of BTM Gianmarc Manzione where he worked with Bob Learn to basically re-tool his game. He describes the process of learning to eliminate muscling the ball and developing a clean & powerful release which allowed him to more naturally stay behind the ball and to time his release for maximum leverage. In addition, he describes learning to trust the core dynamics of the ball with a free armswing which to me is the key to getting where you want to be.

I've been practicing the hinge & swing slot approaches described by Joe Slowinski and having good results. I find that as long as I stay behind the ball and go with a full follow through without grabbing or trying to force the ball to get more action, my rev rate, speed & accuracy have increased. It takes lots of practice to develop the technique & muscle memory, but very much worth the effort. Good luck Beefers.

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#126300 - 04/24/10 10:19 PM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: gohuskies]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
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My thoughts on this. An over aggressive follow through usually causes hitting up on the ball which gives you inconsistent ball reaction, the over/under effect as one issue. It also involves muscling the shot a great deal which can be inconsistent as well.

As for revs, it's like Jay says, leverage. Even a simple straight wrist release with proper leverage which includes correct timing, keeping balance at the line, being low and behind the ball can generate 300+ revs. Add in a more dynamic release like the cup/uncup technique and you even bump that higher.
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#126304 - 04/25/10 12:16 AM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
beefers1 Offline
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Thanks guys, but what I'm asking is what the difference is between revs generated by an overly aggressive follow through, that apparently causes erratic ball reaction, and revs that are generated purely through the wrist?

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#126305 - 04/25/10 12:58 AM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: beefers1]
leftykev Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 329
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
Originally Posted By: beefers1
Thanks guys, but what I'm asking is what the difference is between revs generated by an overly aggressive follow through, that apparently causes erratic ball reaction, and revs that are generated purely through the wrist?


The difference starts with additional grip pressure applied with the more aggressive the follow through. As soon as you apply more grip pressure, the tension flows from the hand all the way up to the shoulder. No matter what anyone says, you will never generate more revs with a more aggressive follow through, since you lose energy with the more tension applied to the arm (from hand to shoulder).

You are getting into the mechanics of the arm swing. Tension will always diminish what you can apply to an object.


But, what answer are you looking for? An actual measurable difference in the amount of revs? How do you propose measuring that difference?


Edited by leftykev (04/25/10 01:13 AM)

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#126306 - 04/25/10 01:37 AM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: leftykev]
Atochabsh Offline
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Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
I would not call it an aggressive follow through. Rather its an accelleration of the arm into the follow through. The arm has to accellerate. And it doesn't do that until the moment of release. And its not the same as "hit up on the ball" either. Its really hard to explain. But the feeling should feel more like a whip crack at the release. If that makes any sense. If you watch the ladies bowling, the higher end ladies tend to show this perfectly. Its a calm free swing and then a whip crack at the end, letting your following through arm swing with the momentum afterwards.

Erin

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#126310 - 04/25/10 03:29 AM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: leftykev]
beefers1 Offline
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Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
Originally Posted By: leftykev
But, what answer are you looking for? An actual measurable difference in the amount of revs? How do you propose measuring that difference?


I'm wondering why the revs generated by an aggressive follow-through causes erratic ball reaction, as Jowdy stated, but he seemed to have no problem with generating a ton of revs the Robert Smith way.

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#126311 - 04/25/10 07:31 AM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: beefers1]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Slow mo videos of pro releases show that the wrist is the key, not the arm. I think that's what Jowdy is getting at - that the motion of the arm should be smooth from the apex at the top of the backswing all the way to the end of the follow-through.

So if the arm's motion is smooth and even, the only thing left to generate revs is the motion of the hand around the ball during the release, combined with the ball's centrifugal force and gravity as it flies off the hand. This motion imparts counterclockwise rotation and is the cause of the revs.

The position of the hand at the start of the release will determine how much leverage the hand will have in doing this motion. If the hand is in front of / on top of the ball, not much leverage. If the hand is behind/under the ball, lots of leverage.

As Erin points out, a slight acceleration of the arm at the point of release is okay, but not on the downswing, and not a "hitting up". Ryan Shafer is a good example of hitting up. Michelle Feldman is a good example of a powerful shot made smoothly.

To improve wrist strength, I recommend exercises. You want to be able to move your wrist in all directions and also move your fingers independent of the wrist.

Check out this site for exercises:
wrist exercises
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#126326 - 04/25/10 02:23 PM Re: Aggressive follow through vs naturally high revs [Re: 10PinGaloot]
beefers1 Offline
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Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
Thanks SpareMe. So why is Shafer's style "bad" even though he can generate comparable revolutions to a normal cranker, and is still very accurate (to him, at least)?

Jowdy mentioned that Monacelli and Smith, in the late 90's, both had problems with the ball overreacting, and he blamed that on their aggressive follow throughs. How is it that their ball can react normally just by changing the follow-through style, without really lowering their rev rate?

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