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#125630 - 04/14/10 08:02 PM Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10)
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Revs still at 180.

Still not getting the hand position I want. Maybe my hip is not getting out of the way making the ball go around it & the hand to the outside???



~ John

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#125649 - 04/14/10 10:42 PM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: ijohn83]
Time-To-Roll Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 434
A/S/L: female, Port Angeles Wa. right...
John, I watched your video. I think you are doing the same thing I do. That is not clearing your right leg soon enough
Watch your 4th step before your slide it is not going in front of your 3rd step, it is stepping off to the right. Your right leg is in the middle of your swing path.If your stepped more to the left with the right foot in front of your left foot and then made your slide toward center your right leg would be out of the way and allow your swing to be in the slot. This is not all my idea but things I have read on the PBA forum. I plan to work on this in practice this summer. Makes sense to me.
Time To Roll

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#125656 - 04/15/10 12:19 AM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: Time-To-Roll]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Thanks Time To Roll I believe you are right. I have worked on this before and it is very hard for me to get that fourth step inline let alone left instead of right of my third step. I'll work on it again.

~ John

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#125657 - 04/15/10 12:22 AM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: Time-To-Roll]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Your form looks excellent to me. The release you're doing is not a strong one, but it works consistently. I personally prefer releases where the fingers are behind the ball below the equator.
If you want to use this release, try Atocabsh's advice and "make a fist" while the ball is falling off your fingers. That will increase the revs.
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#125659 - 04/15/10 12:54 AM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: 10PinGaloot]
GBuck426 Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 68
A/S/L: 51/M/NY
It looks to me like your hand is in a strong position at the top of the backswing, but weakens on the way down. Maybe it is your right leg. Look at your release point. It seems almost like your right foot is to the right of your slide foot (slightly). If you can get that leg out of the way, you can keep your swing closer to your body and your hand in a stronger position. I am working on the same problem. Keep at it, you'll be there by the summer!


Edited by GBuck426 (04/15/10 12:57 AM)

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#125662 - 04/15/10 02:23 AM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: GBuck426]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
I don't see this as being a leg problem at all. Your thumb is coming out early because you're not keeping the hand behind the ball (fingers at or below the equator) as it falls.

Consider your arm to be a pendulum system, with your shoulder as the pivot, your arm as the rod, and the ball as the bob.
( Pendulum )

The ball is going to fly off your thumb at some point in the swing. You determine that point by maintaining the ball at a certain angle to the pendulum. The ball is attached to the pendulum by way of your thumb. Therefore, the thumb can't be pointed parallel to the rod, or the bob will fall off.

So to sum up, the ball is attached to the pendulum by the thumb at an angle, which is determined partly by your thumb hole pitch and partly by the bend of your wrist.

As stated, your forward/downward swing starts with the hand behind the ball. However, by the time it's at the bottom of the swing, the hand is in a weak position. The wrist is relaxing a little relative to the arm, and so the ball is releasing itself. As it does so, your hand - which is not releasing from your arm - ends up on top of the ball.

Try an experiment: Use a credit card. Take a bowling stance with the card on your palm. Imitate the bowling pendulum swing. Draw back that card in a backswing and then forward in a forward swing, and throw it at a mark 5-6 feet away from you. You can hold onto it on the backswing using your thumb, but on the foreward swing, remove the thumb from the card. If you relax your hand/wrist position, the card will get dummped near your feet. You want to keep the wrist in a position that allows you to throw it farther.

I just tried this with my AARP card and verified it. I can throw my AARP card across the living room, or dump it at my feet, based on my wrist position. You try it!


_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#125668 - 04/15/10 06:00 AM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
I am not a rev master, but

I think you are doing everything great except one:
You release the ball (fingers+thumb) at the same time.
The idea is: First thumb than fingers.
It could be a bad fit, but it could be bad muscle memory.

In other words : You need to increase the time from A to B
A- thumb release
B- fingers release
_________________________
Power is nothing without control

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#125690 - 04/15/10 12:39 PM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: Vini]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5166
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
It still looks to me like you are just simply trying to over-power the ball by trying to add revs. If you watch the swing speed, it comes back at a relatively normal pace and then comes down from the top of the swing at mach 1.

I think you should continue to work on the foul line drills and make a conscience effort to stay relaxed and roll the ball. You can see in the slow mo shot at 0:45 that you are hitting up and throwing the ball onto the lane rather than just staying relaxed.

Its going to take a big effort and focus in order to get it down. You are going to have to live at that foul line until you can train your arm to let the ball fall all the way through the swing. You are losing your strong wrist position because your wrist cannot handle 15-16 pounds of force on top of pulling it down that fast, it just bends so you do not get hurt.
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#125711 - 04/15/10 05:31 PM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: sk8shorty01]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Originally Posted By: sk8shorty01
You are going to have to live at that foul line until you can train your arm to let the ball fall all the way through the swing.

I know this to be true.



This is with no thumb until 1:33 working on strong wrist inside & under. When the thumb goes in @ 1:33 I dump the wrist like SpareMe was saying.

~ John

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#125713 - 04/15/10 06:17 PM Re: Has been awhile ijohn83 practice (04-14-10) [Re: ijohn83]
spr3wr Offline
USBC Bronze Level Coach

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 557
A/S/L: 54/m/MICHIGAN
John, You need to learn to stop over throwing the ball. Here is a game you should play.This is done with your full approach Every time you hit the 1-3 pocket on your strike ball you move 3 boards left with your feet and 1 board left with target. Each time you move you need to slow the ball down a little to get the ball to hook into the pocket. Your goal should be to move 12-15 boards left and to keep your hand behind the ball.
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