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#124234 - 04/01/10 11:03 AM Re: UFO--First Experiences ***** [Re: 10PinGaloot]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: SpareMe
After all, the ball is spinning, and it's angular momentum is imparted to the pins.

Aim is the name of the game with the helicopter. You have to be within a half board at the arrows (or hope for a brooklyn).


In the following video, one professional shoots from the right side of the lane while the other shoots from the left side. Both are aiming at the 1-3 area. The guy who won shot from the left and got his ball to deflect to the right. (I'm tempted to call it a reverse Brooklyn.)



I figured that a lighter ball would deflect better, but maybe it was my angle of attack that was off. When I shoot straight, my best hits are Brooklyn. I guess that's based on deflection as well, but with 14 pounds of weight to drive it.

Yeah, I'm worried that the 11# ball I bought from ebay is 1 pound too light. But then, maybe it will encourage me to have a more relaxed Execution with greater spin.

I'm curious how fast the UFO should spin compared to the rev rate of a hook.


Originally Posted By: SpareMe
I use a fingertip ball. Not sure if a standard grip would give me any satisfaction. I use 14 pounds, but obviously that's not what the Asians use.

As I said, when I let go of the ball, the fingers are beside the thumb (my personal style, maybe made possible by the fingertip grip... In 1980 I did the style KahKiat is demonstrating. My new way seems easier, esp with heavier equipt).

The timing of the letting go is important. I, personally, let go at the exact bottom of the swing.


Interesting. Referring to the video again, the pros are seen using conventional grips. I have a 14# ball with fingertip holes without grips. I can't imagine getting that to spin. I guess I'm just weak. hehe

It seems that letting go at the bottom of the swing is right. It seems that the thumb points down and the finger are lifted out with the palm ending in a forward facing position.

This video shows the release clearly. If you can understand Chinese, it also provides instruction.



Originally Posted By: SpareMe
No bending of the elbow, obviously....


Hmm... It seems that the arm usually curves a little though.

Originally Posted By: SpareMe
BTW - I had 3 gutter balls yesterday, so threw the helicopter 3 times, made 2 of them into spares. Easily the simplest highest scoring shot I have, if I could just aim it that way for 10 frames.


Were you using a plastic ball? Maybe it wouldn't hurt to try the typical approach of using a 12# plastic ball with a conventional grip. (I keep thinking of that nice, new 12# ball on ebay for $20!)

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#124268 - 04/01/10 07:35 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: aoiten]
LB75 Offline
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Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 38
A/S/L: 35/M/VA
I'd be interested in hearing how many injuries result from this release. I can't even begin to imagine the damage that would occur to the fingers, wrist and elbow if you hung up in the ball... Think I'll be sticking my normal release.
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#124273 - 04/01/10 08:22 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: LB75]
aoiten Offline
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Posts: 1415
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Originally Posted By: LB75
I'd be interested in hearing how many injuries result from this release. I can't even begin to imagine the damage that would occur to the fingers, wrist and elbow if you hung up in the ball... Think I'll be sticking my normal release.


Well, I've used one house ball with a tight thumb hole, a bunch with loose thumb and finger holes; all with odd spans. No problem so far. On the other hand, shooting straight with a 14# ball with a loose thumb hole, I injured my forearm and couldn't even think of bowling for a week. My wife had a ring finger problem due to her old 15# hooking ball. My ring finger feels a little off as well due to a span issue with my fingertip setup. So I'd say we'd be safer with 11-12# spinners with conventional grips.

Also notice that spinners don't use wrist braces. I think it's partly because they don't have to. I think the biggest injury that spinning would cause is to the industry. That is, until companies re-geared for more spinners.

But, yeah, I suppose some injuries are possible. Are the number and severity of injuries greater than for those using other techniques? Well...that is your question. It would be interesting to know.

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#124274 - 04/01/10 08:46 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: aoiten]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
Originally Posted By: aoiten
Well, I've used one house ball with a tight thumb hole, a bunch with loose thumb and finger holes; all with odd spans. No problem so far. On the other hand, shooting straight with a 14# ball with a loose thumb hole, I injured my forearm and couldn't even think of bowling for a week. My wife had a ring finger problem due to her old 15# hooking ball. My ring finger feels a little off as well due to a span issue with my fingertip setup. So I'd say we'd be safer with 11-12# spinners with conventional grips.


You want to compare injuries caused be bad ball fit to injuries that can be caused by technique and it doesn't work that way. The loose thumbhole could have been remedied using bowlers tape. The other issues are just bad ball fit. Bad technique even with good ball fit is a different story.

Originally Posted By: aoiten
notice that spinners don't use wrist braces. I think it's partly because they don't have to. I think the biggest injury that spinning would cause is to the industry. That is, until companies re-geared for more spinners.


Using a wrist brace isn't need because a spinner actually release with the hand on top of the ball and literally spins the ball and in order to do that the wrist needs to be able to break back. The other styles don't require a wrist brace either unless you have a really weak wrist or wrist issues. The majority of bowlers don't use them at all.

Companies won't "re-gear" for spinners because they don't have to. All existing equipment can be used for this style. The areas of the world where this was mainly used have even started to move away from this style. They are going toward the more traditional releases or even two-handed. Those styles produce higher scores. And let's face it, even those who bowl for fun want to score high.

Originally Posted By: aoiten
, yeah, I suppose some injuries are possible. Are the number and severity of injuries greater than for those using other techniques? Well...that is your question. It would be interesting to know.


Like I said any bad technique can lead to injury. The most popular for this style is the elbow area. That is where most of the force and rotation comes from. The turning of the whole arm but the elbow takes the brunt of it. The shoulder can be an issue too. If you fail to release the ball the fingers, hand and wrist will be very susceptible to injury.

With traditional releases the same areas can be an issue, but by working on correct technique you can cut down on the possible injuries especially with a correctly fit ball. That is a must no matter what.
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#124279 - 04/01/10 09:18 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
aoiten Offline
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Why don't American professionals use the UFO technique? Part of it might be due to sponsorship. My point is that there are non-technical reasons why certain things are popular; reasons that don't apply to me.

This really makes me want to master the UFO technique and whip up on some hook bowlers! haha Actually, I'd be happy just to be competitive with anyone. hehe My time is coming...maybe.

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#124281 - 04/01/10 10:18 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: aoiten]
mikhial66 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 318
A/S/L: 20/M/FL
Because you can't score as high spinning the ball. It would be a huge waste of time (and a ball in the bag) to learn how to spin the ball when throwing a plastic ball straight at the pocket would do the same thing.
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#124282 - 04/01/10 10:26 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: aoiten]
JackZ Offline
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Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
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aoiten, the vast majority of professionals and high stakes amateurs aren't sponsored by ball companies. Don't you think if it was better they'd try it? The idea is to get the best scores...and you go with what works. If I was in a place where the lanes stay bone dry all the time, perhaps I'd try it, though I consider it dangerous even with 12# weights. However, here in the US we use oil on the lanes, which would render the helicopter ineffective imo.
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#124284 - 04/01/10 10:35 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: mikhial66]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: mikhial66
Because you can't score as high spinning the ball. It would be a huge waste of time (and a ball in the bag) to learn how to spin the ball when throwing a plastic ball straight at the pocket would do the same thing.


Eh? I think there are so many unknowns that we are filling in the blanks too much--myself included. If the UFO were the same as the straight shot, why do people spin?

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#124288 - 04/01/10 10:40 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: aoiten]
Calvin Pistorio Offline
State Champion Contender

Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6283
A/S/L: 32/m/maryland
A true spinner is trying to make the ball "roll down the rail." For a right hander you really want to hit the head pin on the 1-2 side and let the ball spin and deflect down the left side and pushing those pins to the right. The counter-clockwise spin would allow the ball to go down that side. If you aim for the 1-3 pocket with a spinner and are right handed you might as well throw plastic straight. The issue is there is less room for error that way and the strike potential goes way down with a spinner. You might not leave as many splits but I'd rather get good carry.
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#124301 - 04/01/10 11:47 PM Re: UFO--First Experiences [Re: Calvin Pistorio]
aoiten Offline
Legend

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1415
A/S/L: amerika ni sunde iru
Originally Posted By: Calvin Pistorio
For a right hander you really want to hit the head pin on the 1-2 side and let the ball spin and deflect down the left side and pushing those pins to the right. The counter-clockwise spin would allow the ball to go down that side.


I'm sorry, but I think that's incorrect. I've been watching the video of the right-handed spinner, [censored] Yu Jen, approaching from the left and hitting the 1-3 area. The ball then rides down toward the 10-pin. (He won with a 267. That's a mere 82 points higher than my best game that I haven't even come close to more than once. hehe) Well, it seems the technique works from different angles anyway.

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