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#124287 - 04/01/10 10:39 PM Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook)
petdocvmd Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 10
A/S/L: 46/M/PA
Hi Folks,

In my previous post, I lamented my inability to hook it on a PBAx pattern, where I'm averaging 160 over 8 games vs. 222 on a house pattern with no problems getting at least 7-12 boards of hook.

After getting some excellent advice here regarding my grip, span and approach, I did the following:

- Had bowling balls re-fitted and drilled: span *was* too big and had 5/8" reverse thumb pitch. Span is now much more comfortable, and combined with 1/8" reverse thumb pitch and judicious use of tape, I do not feel I am "gripping" the ball throughout the swing.

- Revised my stance to put more ball weight in left hand, start a bit more flexed in knees and slightly lowered right shoulder.

- Practiced a slower approach, and "sitting" more into the shot plus more knee bend.

I'm posting two videos: one of my updated approach from back and side, in normal and slow motion, the other later in the session and including a spare shot. I was using my plastic spare ball for everything, standing left instep 23, sliding 23 (occ drift 1-2 bds) and aiming 17 to 17 (aimpoint dots). I did this to maximize any errors. In hindsight (after reading Larry Matthew's booklet), I think I have underestimated my toe-to-shoulder distance by ~ 2-3 boards.

Here's the first video:



And the second:




My observations/comments:

- Release is occurring before slide is complete (early).

- Swing is inside-out.

- Hand position is 90 degrees prior to release (suitcase - though I really was not thinking at all about this or trying to correct it in this session).

- Still don't seem low enough at the line. In fact, I seem to raise slightly before, then lower briefly *after* the release???

- In the majority of deliveries, the ball bounced, albeit slightly, despite being released far lower and closer than the previous week.

Questions:

- Should I start my first step slightly sooner to ensure I plant before release? I know Marshall Holman released it in the slide, but I'm no Marshall ;-)

- Do I try to correct the inside-out? I think I have always thrown that way, and back in the day I carried 205 on primitive conditions, and have a nice looking shot that fits my eye on house conditions. The problem is on PBAx I am rolling outside-in, getting 2-4 boards of hook. It's hard to aim that swing and it doesn't suit my eye. I practiced an exaggerated inside pushaway on the day of this video, which did straighten up my swing, but felt very unnatural and my brain oft-overruled it and forced the shot right (it's about a 2-3 board swing). Also, spares are suddenly a nightmare (I used to hook at them) because my "straight" shot is offset with the inside out. I'm currently dealing by lining up and aiming left of where a truly straight swing would take the ball, or pushing *way* inside to straighten the swing (as in the video).

- Any thoughts regarding the slight but irritating bounce on lane contact?

- Same for the little head bob I seem to be doing around the release?

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm, already indebted by virtue of your quick detection of my excessive grip and ill fitting ball, and much appreciate the constructive advice found on this site :-D

-Scott

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#124316 - 04/02/10 09:39 AM Re: Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook) [Re: petdocvmd]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
First off, you are going to have to slow yourself down if you want to see the ball hook. As of right now on a house shot the ball is being slown down as it plows through the heavy oil in the middle of the lane and then encounters friction must faster. When you get on the PBA stuff you are just throwing the ball through the break point instead of getting it there.

This is all caused by your swing being pulled through on the shot. Its relatively straight as far as plane is concerned, but it is really fast. This also explains why the ball is released before the slide stops, because the arm is pulling the ball into early timing instead of just allowing it to swing free and stay in a fraction of late timing.

I would count in your head at practice in order to get a feel for the right tempo, and each person is slightly different. I will add my video below so you can see my tempo in comparison to your own and get an idea. Your tempo does not have to be the same as mine, and it might not be, but I doubt it should be as fast as it is.

The reason you "rear up" slightly at the line is because of two things, your speed coming to the line being to fast and your upper body having a little to much tilt forward. This causes you to get up onto your toes in the slide, lowering your surface contact area and in turn it puts more pressure on the smaller points of contact. This causes the body to stop faster (like a brake) and the momentum has to go somewhere so it recoils through the body.

The upper body tilt is a very common problem as that is how most people attempt to get low at the line. You are correct on working on sitting into the shot, you should continue to work with that and you will slowly remove the excessive tilt. The tilt can also cause your ball bouncing problem because the ball is being released in a trajectory that goes through the lane as opposed to being released parallel to the floor and landing like an airplane onto the lane. In that regard, it will not matter how low the ball is released, if it is being released in a downward angle it will bounce, it should be released parallel in order to land flat and read the lane.

A quick note, the ball bouncing can also cause a lack of hook because first the ball impacts the lane surface hard, jarring some rotation out of it, but then when it bounces and comes back down it tends to hydroplane on the oil as opposed to digging through it. Fixing the shoulder lean should fix the bouncing issue so no worries here.
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#124320 - 04/02/10 09:52 AM Re: Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook) [Re: sk8shorty01]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
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#124337 - 04/02/10 12:44 PM Re: Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook) [Re: sk8shorty01]
petdocvmd Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 10
A/S/L: 46/M/PA
sk8shorty01:

Thanks for the quick and insightful response. Here's the thing: during the approach I don't consciously feel like I'm helping the downswing. I know that a relatively passive, pendulum swing is best, and set out to do just that. Any tips or exercises for reducing/eliminating this tendency? Do I exaggerate the opposite i.e. key on trying to *slow* or hold back the downswing?

Believe it or not, I'm slower to the line than I was <G>! I think I will bring a metronome to practice, and set it to your tempo for comparison. I understand my personal tempo will likely be different, but I need a concrete comparison to start.

I think I was trying to bend a bit more at the waist while staying back, so I will work on emphasizing the sitting and less the bending :-D

Thanks,

Scott

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#124340 - 04/02/10 01:37 PM Re: Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook) [Re: petdocvmd]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
Scott,

The best drill to get you to allow your swing to free up is the foul line drill, here is how its done:

1- Stand at the line in your finishing position; trail leg back, slide knee bent, upper body tilted forward at about 15 degrees, ball hanging from your shoulder straight down by your ankle, balance arm out to the non-ball side wall.

2- Push the ball forward from its starting point (straight down at ankle) by engaging your muscles in your ball side arm. The push forward should be about a foot to a foot and a half in length.

3- When the ball reaches that point, relax the arm completely and let it free swing back, it should have a feeling of floating at the top of the back swing, then it should free fall to the release.

4- Release the ball without trying to hit a mark, or caring about how many pins you are knocking down. If you need a way of "scoring" yourself, count shots that you do it correct without muscle as a strike, those that you muscle are 0. See how many free swings you can do in an entire game.

In the exercise do not shoot at spares, just throw the ball exactly the same every time. Keep relaxed and just let it free swing. This will allow you to train your body what a relaxed swing should feel like.

By fixing the swing you will fix your feet on most occasions. The reason the feet are so fast is because they are running in order to maintain your balance because of the fast swing. By freeing up the swing you will free up the feet in the approach.
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#124348 - 04/02/10 02:24 PM Re: Follow up (re: PBAx / no hook) [Re: sk8shorty01]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
I usually don't give advice on videos, so this post is not advice. None of the following is intended for you (the OP) at all but simply to explain or whatever....for those who otherwise don't know. To all readers - Ignore if you already know this; comment if you disagree. Not intending to hijack the post, though..........

Just wanted to say, since you mentioned suitcase position, that in a suitcase style the hand is on top of the ball. Fingers at 3 o'clock and thumb at 9 o'clock. There's no leverage at all in that release. In a suitcase release, you can have 0 to 90 degree rotation, but it's very very low revs.

Notwithstanding that, my wife beats the tar out of me every week (half the time - we both average 170) with a suitcase delivery.

What you seem to be doing is more like a Pete Weber release, and when I do that style, I rotate to that hand position slowly, completing the move before the ball reaches vertical beside the slide foot. That way, the 90* rotation of my hand doesn't affect the motion imparted by the release. The ball falls off my fingers at a 90* axis of rotation, giving a long shot with big hook, skid-flip style.

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