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#122824 - 03/19/10 01:18 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
leftykev Offline
High Roller Hopeful

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 301
A/S/L: Spokane, WA
Why should I pay top dollar for the current high end ball, when I can save a few bucks, and spend that savings in other bowling related ways.

This season, I'm using Storm balls (Hy-Road and ROF). I've matched up an aggressive drilling with the right surface for my game.

In my area, I am seeing lots of bowlers purchasing the Invasion or Mutant Cell. They struggle with figuring out how to throw these balls, mainly because they have too aggressive a drilling for the house shot. They can't see or don't want to listen that the ball is junk because they are throwing the ball on the wrong condition. So, instead of their average going up, it does down, and they keep the ball in the bag, switching back to their old equipment.

Also, they assume the ball will magically raise their average, without having to improve their game. They don't even maintain the ball surface, then wonder why the ball reaction continues to deteriorate.

Am I missing something with this description, or all these high end bowling balls making people dumb? LOL


Edited by leftykev (03/19/10 01:22 PM)

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Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10669
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#122846 - 03/19/10 07:41 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: leftykev]
BowlerBob Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 282
A/S/L: 39/M/Pittsburgh, PA
I'm in process of dropping to 15#. I have a Nomad Pearl that I bought last summer, and will be getting a Dark Star and Cell Pearl to match.

So for me, I like mostly low to mid range. Although I think the Cell is still high end.

I would like to get a Mutant just for the fun of it, but I think that's more of a luxory than necessity.
_________________________
HG: 279 (300+ round the corner from previous game)
LG: 96?

Roto Grip Nomad Pearl
Roto Grip Dark Star
Storm Rapid Fire
Ebonite Pin Slasher
Ebonite Maxim Capt. Fireball
---------
Storm Streamline 3 Ball Roller
Innovative 1/2 hp Spinner

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#122847 - 03/19/10 09:18 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: desertdog71]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
Originally Posted By: desertdog71
I like weaker balls with strong drills myself. I have a lot of hand so all the latest and greatest steroid balls hook too much, or burn up before they get to the pins. I recently bought a Freeze and I have it drilled stacked leverage and the thing is a beast. It does not leave corner pins ever unless I chicken wing the release. The freeze does need nice clean backends to work good, but I have a weak particle ball for carry down as well. I have a Red Zone which is my strongest most modern ball, and its pretty versatile but its basically a Python in comparison.

I have yet to find a condition that I need anything stronger than what I own now. I have even bowled on 50' flat shots with what I have and didn't feel like I needed more ball.


Absolutely. The Freeze is an awesome ball. Bought it the day it became available because i loved the core, cover combination and it has been great. Ive often thought of buying two or three just to keep them and drill them up later. Who knows. But you can buy almost three of those for the price of one High end ball for sure.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

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#122848 - 03/19/10 09:21 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: desertdog71]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
Originally Posted By: desertdog71
I like weaker balls with strong drills myself. I have a lot of hand so all the latest and greatest steroid balls hook too much, or burn up before they get to the pins. I recently bought a Freeze and I have it drilled stacked leverage and the thing is a beast. It does not leave corner pins ever unless I chicken wing the release. The freeze does need nice clean backends to work good, but I have a weak particle ball for carry down as well. I have a Red Zone which is my strongest most modern ball, and its pretty versatile but its basically a Python in comparison.

You bowled PBA or sport shots with the Freeze? Did it handle well? What if anything would you say would the negative on the Freeze and the more difficult shots. Ive often wondered about this.
I have yet to find a condition that I need anything stronger than what I own now. I have even bowled on 50' flat shots with what I have and didn't feel like I needed more ball.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

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#122849 - 03/19/10 09:24 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: Vini]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
Originally Posted By: Vini
Would Hammer Vibe Emerald fall into this category ?


I would definitely say so. I think the whole Vibe line is in that category. I mean you see Bill Oneil and Anthony Lecaze throwing the onyx vibe, Ive seen every vibe on the tour.

And that ball can be more than advertised. I mean depending on your style and such. My wife kills with that ball.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

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#122851 - 03/19/10 09:30 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: leftykev]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
I saw a guy bowling an INVASION the other day. His spare ball...a python. I didnt see him hit too many spares. I did see him hit some strikes that the Python wouldve picked up just as well though. Sort of illustrated the point.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

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#122887 - 03/20/10 07:21 AM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 5782
A/S/L: 45/F/California
There's so many choices now, then back even 10 years ago. But coverstock is still the primary driving force in matching up a ball to the bowler.

The problem, I think, lays with the bowler now really knowing what condition they are on. Because "oily", "medium" are subjective. And of course that will depend on the bowler's speed and rev rate.

So no matter the ball, the coverstock should be matched to the bowler's speed and rev rate and then to the house condition they will be seeing most often.

Middle of the line balls (pricewise) are fine for most folks. The few I've tried have been hit or miss. Some great some OK. None were awful. But the top of the line balls do seem to drive more. Now you have to ask yourself, does the bowler's skill level, know when a ball is driving more or not? Will the bowler be able to tell the difference? In most cases no. And you can still get a great match using mid priced equipment.

The turn over in new equipment from the manufacterers is a boon for most bowlers. You can buy a ball that is two generations old and its still a fantastic ball. You can buy a Freeze for barely over $100 and you have tons of bang for your buck. Same with the Hammer Raw series only at the $150 range. Do they drive harder....I think so. But most people will not be able to tell and it will also depend on the bowler.

But nothing beats a new ball. The power, the drive the carry is optimal for about 4-6 mo. And co incidentally that's about when the manufacterers come out with the next generation of balls.

Erin

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#122888 - 03/20/10 07:26 AM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: leftykev]
Joe Bowler Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 1324
A/S/L: 49/M/MD
Quote:
Why should I pay top dollar for the current high end ball, when I can save a few bucks, and spend that savings in other bowling related ways.

For the three reasons previously mentioned - control, entry angle, and carry. And, if you compete in tournaments, a fourth reason is - money. Not every new high end ball raises the standard, but at least once or twice a year, a new ball will push the limits of technology. For me, without changing anything else in my game, purchasing a Cell Pearl gave me the scoring breakthrough of a lifetime. When I can use that ball, I carry everything, and rolled my first ever 800 (and a second one this year), and a few 300's too. It literally gave me a 20 pin jump in average, and I was already in the 200's. That's what makes a high end ball worth every dollar.

That's not to say that you should not have weaker balls in your arsenal. If you are serious about bowling, you are going to need a variety of equipment to maximize your scoring potential on different conditions.
_________________________
Career Highs:
300's: 7
800's: 3
House Avg: 239
Sport Avg: 198

Summer 2010:
House Avg: 213
Sport Avg: 190

Arsenal: 16# Mutant Cell, Nomad Solid, Dark Star, Grenade, Ogre Particle, + WD Spare Ball

Motto: One Shot At A Time

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#122922 - 03/20/10 02:48 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: Joe Bowler]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
Originally Posted By: Joe Bowler
Quote:
Why should I pay top dollar for the current high end ball, when I can save a few bucks, and spend that savings in other bowling related ways.

For the three reasons previously mentioned - control, entry angle, and carry. And, if you compete in tournaments, a fourth reason is - money. Not every new high end ball raises the standard, but at least once or twice a year, a new ball will push the limits of technology. For me, without changing anything else in my game, purchasing a Cell Pearl gave me the scoring breakthrough of a lifetime. When I can use that ball, I carry everything, and rolled my first ever 800 (and a second one this year), and a few 300's too. It literally gave me a 20 pin jump in average, and I was already in the 200's. That's what makes a high end ball worth every dollar.

That's not to say that you should not have weaker balls in your arsenal. If you are serious about bowling, you are going to need a variety of equipment to maximize your scoring potential on different conditions.


Tournaments...different beast. Thats why i specifically started the post off with THS being the subject. Definitely sports shots and better balls are a match.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

Top
#122925 - 03/20/10 02:54 PM Re: aggressive layouts on weaker balls [Re: Atochabsh]
evilash71 Offline
Touring Pro Hopeful

Registered: 03/28/09
Posts: 639
A/S/L: 38/M/ TX
Originally Posted By: Atochabsh
There's so many choices now, then back even 10 years ago. But coverstock is still the primary driving force in matching up a ball to the bowler.

The problem, I think, lays with the bowler now really knowing what condition they are on. Because "oily", "medium" are subjective. And of course that will depend on the bowler's speed and rev rate.

So no matter the ball, the coverstock should be matched to the bowler's speed and rev rate and then to the house condition they will be seeing most often.

Middle of the line balls (pricewise) are fine for most folks. The few I've tried have been hit or miss. Some great some OK. None were awful. But the top of the line balls do seem to drive more. Now you have to ask yourself, does the bowler's skill level, know when a ball is driving more or not? Will the bowler be able to tell the difference? In most cases no. And you can still get a great match using mid priced equipment.

The turn over in new equipment from the manufacterers is a boon for most bowlers. You can buy a ball that is two generations old and its still a fantastic ball. You can buy a Freeze for barely over $100 and you have tons of bang for your buck. Same with the Hammer Raw series only at the $150 range. Do they drive harder....I think so. But most people will not be able to tell and it will also depend on the bowler.

But nothing beats a new ball. The power, the drive the carry is optimal for about 4-6 mo. And co incidentally that's about when the manufacterers come out with the next generation of balls.

Erin


Hey erin,
so going off your point. I agree coverstock is really the key. Let me ask you. Which coverstock in your opinion matches which speed/rev condtions?

For instance, Tweener(17) speed/Stroker rev(265) would be a recommendation of which coverstock? And having said that which high end ball would you recommend vs which mid line ball based on the "drive" factor.

I ask because you make a valid point, especially regarding the 4-6month time frame. So Im curious say for example the situation i just described. What would your ball recommendation be(based on that speed/rev rate/coverstock) in each price line. I wanted to compare and see what the actual difference would be. I know its just opinion, but got me wondering.
_________________________
STORM INVASION
STORM REIGN
COLUMBIA 300 FREEZE
CHICAGO BEARS VIZABALL
BRUNSWICK SWARM-semi retired
BRUNSICK COPPERHEAD-retired

Top
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