BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#122546 - 03/17/10 03:02 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: mikhial66]
ijohn83 Offline
4x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 950
A/S/L: 54/male/Palmdale, California U...
Originally Posted By: mikhial66
If I'm correct, dropping a ball from 6 feet, it will get to 13.3962959mph before hitting the ground.


Thanks. So a little muscle gets me to 17-18 Mph. A little too much gets me to 19+.

~John

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#122551 - 03/17/10 03:21 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: ijohn83]
mikhial66 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 318
A/S/L: 20/M/FL
The rest of the speed should be from you going forward. Just guesstimating from watching a video of mine, I'm going 7mph to the line in my last step. That 7mph is pretty much added to the 13mph, but of course there is some energy lost in your arm swing (It's not dropping it straight down, it has to transfer it's direction first). At least that's what makes sense to me.
_________________________
Current Arsenal:
Siege
Evil Siege
Python
Midnight Vibe
T-Zone (Spare)
Copperhead(THS Ball)

Top
#122572 - 03/17/10 06:00 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: mikhial66]
tbill Offline
Touring Pro Contender

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 693
A/S/L: 42/m/ny
i suffer the same fate, i throw around 18/19mph, BUT, i have been able to increase my rev's a little bit by changing my release this year. i know if i could slow my ball speed some, i'd get alot more reaction out of my ball.
_________________________
167 avg
248 high game (12/14/09)
616 high series (12/14/09)
working on all of them......

track 930T [15]

member of the mooseknuckles winter vl team

Top
#122606 - 03/17/10 09:35 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: mikhial66]
Qilene15 Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 13
A/S/L: 19/M/Gainesville
Originally Posted By: mikhial66
The rest of the speed should be from you going forward. Just guesstimating from watching a video of mine, I'm going 7mph to the line in my last step. That 7mph is pretty much added to the 13mph, but of course there is some energy lost in your arm swing (It's not dropping it straight down, it has to transfer it's direction first). At least that's what makes sense to me.


You're right that it will be 13mph off the hand just dropping it from a swing, but the energy really isn't lost due to the direction change. That doesn't play much of a factor, the only energy lost from top of backswing to release is energy due to air drag, which is pretty small comparatively (of course assuming no muscling at all).

Using some more calculations, I believe it would take a force of approximately 90N (about 1/3 more force than holding up the ball) to generate a speed of approximately 19 mph. That's not too much, considering, however it must take a strong follow through to generate that sort of speed. (At least, strong off the hand, not necessarily strong in terms of bowling strong).

With a little bit of force on the follow through, it's not hard to get speeds up to 19mph I think from a non-muscled arm swing I think. At least, you're supposed to give it some "umph" at the release, no? In a bowling book I read, it said you should project the ball foward and out, not just up, which is what I try to do. Perhaps I'm giving it too much mustard at the release point, so to speak. Also I might think my release is a bit weak, I really try to focus on keeping my wrist in a nice strong position, but I can totally see me relaxing it somewhere without me knowing.

Sadly can't get a video up just yet, it was super windy here a few days ago, and a very heavy door smashed my finger when the wind blew it closed. So I'm out of commission for a bit, haha.

Will post one asap smile


Edited by Qilene15 (03/17/10 09:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Yargh, bad at phsyics lol

Top
#122658 - 03/18/10 05:19 AM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: mikhial66]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: mikhial66
If I'm correct, dropping a ball from 6 feet, it will get to 13.3962959mph before hitting the ground.

Interesting. What formula did you use to calculate?

Assuming your math is correct, it would imply that a perfectly unmuscled arm swing combined with a 2 mph walking pace approach to the foul line would result in a ball speed of around 15 mph. That happens to be right where I am at, but compared to most other high average bowlers, it seems a bit on the slow side. Perhaps it is right where it should be. smile
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
#122672 - 03/18/10 09:08 AM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: Joe Bowler]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
y(x) = -32 * x^2 + v*x + h

y = height at time x in feet
x = seconds after the values for v and h were measured
v = initial velocity
h = initial height.

In our system, we have y(x) = -32.174x^2 + 6.

Solving for y = 0 (ball at the floor), we get x = .431 seconds.

v = a*t = 32.174*.431 = 13.866 f/s = 9.455 m/h

_________________________
CMGBB - Bowling tips
BowlSK - Bowling score keeper and stats tracker
My BowlSK

That my boy... that's pro quality.

Top
#122689 - 03/18/10 12:05 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: cgeorg]
mikhial66 Offline
High Roller

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 318
A/S/L: 20/M/FL
This is what I did-

t = squareroot((2d)/a)
v = a * t

t = time
d= distance
a= acceleration (32.17ft/s)
v = velocity

t = squareroot(2(6)/32.17) = 0.610752274
v = 32.17 * 0.610752274 = 19.6479007 ft/s
19.6479007ft/s = 13.3962959 mph
_________________________
Current Arsenal:
Siege
Evil Siege
Python
Midnight Vibe
T-Zone (Spare)
Copperhead(THS Ball)

Top
#122693 - 03/18/10 12:58 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: mikhial66]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Hmm... A quick google of your thing shows that you seem to be right, and I would get the same answer if I use 2h instead of h in my first equation. I just don't know why that would be the case... y(0) would then be 12, which is wrong.

Ok, it looks like my equation should have been 1/2at^2 + vt + h. Dang.
_________________________
CMGBB - Bowling tips
BowlSK - Bowling score keeper and stats tracker
My BowlSK

That my boy... that's pro quality.

Top
#122705 - 03/18/10 02:32 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: cgeorg]
Qilene15 Offline
Bantam

Registered: 03/04/10
Posts: 13
A/S/L: 19/M/Gainesville
Originally Posted By: cgeorg
Hmm... A quick google of your thing shows that you seem to be right, and I would get the same answer if I use 2h instead of h in my first equation. I just don't know why that would be the case... y(0) would then be 12, which is wrong.

Ok, it looks like my equation should have been 1/2at^2 + vt + h. Dang.


Actually, although the equation that you're (and the other poster) is using end up giving the right value, it's for the wrong reason. Let me explain. Gravity only acts in a downward motion, so it does not matter what the downward velocity of the ball is when you drop it. Even if it was 100 mph, it would still have 0 velocity in the x direction (towards the pins).

Anyhow, what really does matter is the potential energy in the ball at the top of the backswing, if you raise it 6 feet (1.82 m) at the top, and the ball is 14 pounds (6.35 kg), it has a potential energy of U = mgh = 9.8*1.82*6.35 = 113 J. Now, notice that I used a 14 pound ball. If we used a heavier ball, we'd have more energy in the ball so more speed. At the bottom of the backswing, we have no potential energy relative to the ground, but now it's all kinetic energy. So, this 113 J = 1/2 mv^2, or v^2 = 35.5 or v = 5.96 m/s or 13.3 mph. Notice that if we had used a 16 pound ball, it's only a slightly greater 5.97 m/s at the pins. Therefore as you can see, although it's small, a heavier ball equals a faster release. The gravity equation gives us this value simply because you're changing the direction of the ball at the last second (I think, at least).

So, properly using energy you can see that things such as just walking the ball to the foul line transfer energy into it and can make the calculations wonky. But just by bringing it back up 6 feet, and having it momentarily stop at the top, it will have that speed at the foul line, regardless. With good follow through the ball, you'll get up to that speed without much muscle. I think pro average speed is 17-19 mph, no?

Not sure how much the external influences actually influence the ball speed at the line, before the release, but it could be a few mph. That makes the force from the release be even smaller to generate that sort of speed.

Top
#122715 - 03/18/10 03:41 PM Re: Ball Speed Not Matching Revs? [Re: Qilene15]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Thanks for posting the formula(s), guys.

Acceleration at 32 feet per second squared *sounds* like it would produce a lot faster ball speed than 13.x miles per hour.

But, right now, my brain is too fried from work to think it through. brickwall
_________________________
USBC (2008-2016):
300s: 9
800s: 7
House: 239
Sport: 210

PBA (2014-2015): $850

Heavy: Nano, HyperCell, Eternal Cell
Medium: IQ Tour, Tour SiC, Tag
Light: Spare+, Tank, Rebel Tank
Spares: WD

Internet advice is offered free, as is, at your own risk.

Top
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Any interest in a winter virtual league?
by SteveH - Yesterday at 10:22 PM
Nothing worse than falling apart late in a game
by Jason_C - Yesterday at 10:04 PM
Fall/Winter Leagues 2017-18 thread
by Richie V. - Yesterday at 09:15 PM
Which ball
by djp1080 - Yesterday at 06:18 PM
Entry Angle
by djp1080 - Yesterday at 12:09 PM
Honor scores 2017-18
by Fin09 - 11/17/17 07:27 PM
My low track
by Jason_C - 11/17/17 01:38 PM
Back-up Bowling
by djp1080 - 11/16/17 08:31 PM
Has this happenned to any one
by 82Boat69 - 11/14/17 01:24 PM
Two handed with pinky and ring
by Dylan585 - 11/13/17 02:48 PM
2017 U.S. Open
by Dylan585 - 11/12/17 05:48 PM
Storm Hy-Road Surface
by SteveH - 11/05/17 09:51 PM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2017 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.