This is the best my webcam will do. I'm aware of the bump out in my swing(Used to be a lot worse and is getting better) ). I also know I'm slow, but the shoulders are improving with PT (I'm already faster than I was:). I counted revs off the hand to the pins today...came up with 13. Pick away....you can't be any more critical of me than I am;)

The very first thing that I noticed is kind of what I suspected when you said how far right you were standing and how far left your target was. Notice that you start up against the ball return (about 38) yet you are ending on about 25. That means you are drifting 13 boards to the left, meaning that you have to drift that far left in order to hit your target.

I think you are going to have to learn to keep that drifting to a minimum as that is causing you to have to play so deep just to hit the second arrow.

One drill you could try is to force yourself to walk straight. Look at second arrow (10) and stand 8 boards to the right of that, or 18. This will make you walk straight because if you drift your normal 13 boards you will slide on 3 and there is no way you can lay the ball down on the lane by sliding there.

I think thats going to be your biggest hurdle at this point other than the PT you have mentioned you are going through. Drifting isn't a bad thing as long as its the same every time but you have to realize that the bigger the drift you incorporate the bigger the room for error. I would try to get the drift down under 5 boards if you can.

Hmmm, I don't see this as a drifting problem at all. With that slow ball speed, and the number of boards JackZ is covering, and as far out as his break point is... he's just walking a nice straight line to his target. His starting position, target, and where the ball goes out to (4 or 5 board) looks to be in a nice line. Counting the belly boards, and the trip back to the pocket, he's covering up to 25 boards. If he stands 18 and hits the 2nd arrow, he's going to be in the right gutter.

JackZ, I do understand about the problem of getting inside on the lane that you were talking about in that other thread. The only way for you to get inside enough when the ball return is in the way, is to go out in front of it, and do baby steps, or imaginary steps for the first couple to get your timing.

Wow, that bump out in the swings hurts my shoulder just watching it. That is what is hindering your ball speed... big time. Your taking all of the natural momentum that gravity is giving to you, free of charge, and wasting it on a swing correction.

Other than the bumpout, very smooth, good timing and balance, and nice late hand on the release.

Also, I think that if you can get rid of the bump in your swing, your ball speed would improve greatly, and you would discover that you wouldn't need to get any farther inside on the lane... and your shoulder might feel better too.

Thanks guys. Working on that bump. It's about half what it was and my swing is higher than it was only a few weeks ago. I think the PT is really helping. I'm hoping by next fall I can have a straight backswing up around head level. Then maybe I won't need to swing out so much. I can do a straight line whenever I want, but with this speed even plastic will go brooklyn(maybe not...I might be up to 12mph by now<g>).

trekguy, you do have to realize that the oil pattern has some say in that too. The bowling balls cover stock does not read the lane when its in oil, that is why they call it a "reactive" cover. It skids more in oil and hooks more in the dry than Urethane or Plastic does, so the object is to keep the ball in the oil as long as possible.

I am not saying that JackZ should change for sure, just to shop around and make sure there isn't another place to play on the lanes that will be more score inducing, thats all.

Right now the ball is getting out to the 5 board at about 32 feet. So the ball is completely in the dry part of the lane just past half way down. That means the ball has a lot of time to attempt to conserve energy, and the further your break point is from the pocket the more entry angle you are losing.

If the start point stayed the same (38) and you take into account about 3 boards of drift the lay down point would be at (28). This would allow the ball to skid to the arrows at about 25, getting out to around 9 at 40 feet. This is where the ball would begin to read the lane surface and this is where the ball would begin to hook. This should allow the ball to cover less of the lane, read the lane later, conserve more energy, and create more entry angle. Because the ball is able to stay in the oil longer, it will skid for a longer distance, allowing the body to stay in a more natural stance.

Remember, this is all just hypothetical and is just an example based on my own findings. I am not positive it would work, but it should work in most bowlers that by bringing the break point a little further inside you are able to create more skid and in turn a straighter lane play.

JackZ, please do not think I am forcing anything on you or trying to completely change your game. I am just hoping to help you in whatever way I can. If it works, great, if not then at least you know that you are lined up to the best of your games ability at this point due to the PT you are going through. As your body strengthens you should be able to increase speeds and in turn begin to move your feet to the left. I hope you don't think I am picking on you because I am truly not, I am just using my knowledge of the game the same I would if I was helping out someone in person.

Good luck in your progressions and keep working!

Looks like me, in a mirror.

Spare Me, I wish speed on you. I think you already have the rest of it:)


Sk8, if you've got oil on the left side....I'm coming down to bowl with you:)

You can get by throwing straight up here if you throw at very high speed(18 or better)...which I don't. We have a young lady who subs for us. She's lefty and fires the ball at at least 18....which is why she has multiple 300's and high 700 series in different houses. If you'd like, I can do another video using urethane instead of reactive. With that I can stand 20 and shoot 10, but as I sadly learned, I don't carry well. Any tighter and I'd have to throw harder, which I can't yet. If there's oil I'm quite capable of throwing straight up. I've done a 3 to 3 line on a leftover Chameleon? shot at another house. 5 games, no drift, no gutter. I currently have found the way I'm shooting to be what I need. Stand right, walk left, and get it as far out to the left as I can. If I'm lucky, it doesn't roll out and doesn't hook past the pocket.

I'd be happy to learn more of the inside. If there's oil and I see some skid on the ball, I can shoot that. If the ball reacts immediately, I can't. I'd love to see a tight swing over 15. With the backends we have it'd be great:) BTW, I got to practice on lanes at each end of the house lately(our league is in the middle where there are 4 entrance doors;)). The shot was much better. Hhmm. Maybe if I'm real nice to my ball driller and my coach (they run the Pro Shop and the Classic League) they'll let me bowl down on the end with them next year. It's a thought;)

I don't know JackZ, I watch lots of film when I played football and the habits carried over. I saw a few things that stood out to me. Oh and what do you mean by bump?

Anywho, first I'd say saying behind the ball or on the inside would be more beneficial to you. If you watch the videos closely you get on the outside of the ball in the peak of the backswing. Additionally, this turning is why your swing plane is off as well because if you don't move the ball or your body you're going to take out your knee. You probably already know all this, but hey that's what I saw.

Second, I'm a big fan of keeping your head on the same plane so that the brain doesn't have to adjust your vertical targeting while moving hence making a more accurate shot. When you walk, you change that plane as you go. It's high, then lowers a little, and then it get real low at the slide.

Third, I can't tell from behind, but I'd say, Use that Non-Swing arm Man! It looks to me like that non-swing arm isn't supporting any ball weight. Additionally, it looks like your balance arm shoots out there nice and straight and then goes all limp. Use that thing to keep your shoulders all good and it'll help you with your swing height as well and maybe staying behind the ball.

That's all I can really see from this angle. Anywho, I hope this helps.

The Demolition Man

DM, thanks.

The bump is when the ball gets toward the top of my backswing, it hits something(muscles in my shoulders are all bunched up) and moves out to the left. That also causes my torso to bend forward, lowering my head. It's getting better thanks to the PT, but my swing used to go straight back, straight up, then left toward the wall, pulling my upper body with it;) It made me shy away from a free swing for years. I'm getting looser.

My balance arm I always thought as holding my torso to whatever angle I was bowling on. Now that I see it again, It looks like a bird flapping. It doesn't do anything at the end. I'll have to look at some other videos and see what others do with it.

Ah I see. I had a touch of that when I played football. My one friend and I hit each other and he is much bigger than me. It hurt my shoulder pretty bad. Good thing I played on the left side of the defense (right shoulder was the one that was a messed up). I'd still try for a free swing if I were you, any way to take strain and pain out of the swing is a good idea in my opinion.

It sounds like your major concern is that the free swing would increase your backswing height would hurt your shoulder. You can still have a lower backswing with a free swing. You can lower the ball in your stance some to help with that. And who knows, your swing height may not change at all. Mine is only slightly higher than before I starting swinging freer. Others have said it is much higher, but it's a combination of getting lower and swinging freer IMO. The forward bend at the waist and the balance arm also effect the swing height so you can adjust them the help the swing stay down as well.

I really think that you would benefit a ton, if you worked on simply staying behind and under the ball the whole swing. Even if you have to go up there and put tons of forward roll on the ball. At the very least it'll stop that early turn, straighten up your swing and help it stay in the swing slot/plane better.