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#119801 - 02/26/10 11:49 PM Walk pattern
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
I tried something in my 3rd game tonight, cause nothing else was working. Instead of walking to my mark, I stared at the foul line and walked dead straight (standing 38 and taking 2 steps straight towards 38...ending up sliding on about 35), then looked at my mark(3rd arrow). It gave me a double. In order to swing 2nd -3rd arrow, I've had to stand against the ball return and with my speed, the ball over-hooks. When I got deeper and hit 3rd arrow, I noticed real live oil on the ball! I've never played this deep so it may be a good thing. If I could teach myself to walk dead straight from wherever I lined up, I might be able to play more lines. I do walk straight for an outside shot. Since I'm learning to turn the ball, I need to be able to adapt, yes?
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#119826 - 02/27/10 06:08 AM Re: Walk pattern [Re: JackZ]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
it is funny !

Till yesterday I would read and hear the same phrase :
"Walk to your target" even if that means NOT parallel to the boards.
Yesterday I saw a video of MBC where was specifically stated:
DO NOT walk to your target.
Walk a straight line parallel to the boards but open / close shoulders depending on target.

Which version to believe ?

And this is not the only topic that is somehow confusing.
Some say: Let it roll of your hand
Some others: Snap the fingers
How can you let it roll if you snap ????

So my humble advice is:
Get all the info you can get - try it - keep what works for you - throw the rest.
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#119865 - 02/27/10 12:00 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: Vini]
trekguy Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 783
A/S/L: 56/M/Mn
Originally Posted By: Vini
it is funny !

Till yesterday I would read and hear the same phrase :
"Walk to your target" even if that means NOT parallel to the boards.
Yesterday I saw a video of MBC where was specifically stated:
DO NOT walk to your target.
Walk a straight line parallel to the boards but open / close shoulders depending on target.

Which version to believe ?

And this is not the only topic that is somehow confusing.
Some say: Let it roll of your hand
Some others: Snap the fingers
How can you let it roll if you snap ????

So my humble advice is:
Get all the info you can get - try it - keep what works for you - throw the rest.



I have to think that walking up the boards, and turning your upper body to your target is not the way to go. Not saying that it can't be done, but a lot of things are going to be messed up by doing that. You are no longer lined up with your target. Your pushaway and swing are no longer lined up with your target. You will need to twist your upper body in mid approach to reach your target. This motion will also torque the knee. Also, I don't see how it's possible to keep a free swing with the midflight adjustments that have to be made.

As far as roll/snap... the basic motion is to roll it off of your hand. That's enough for most people to get the core engaged, and get the proper roll. The snap is just an extra acceleration during the roll-off... if that makes any sense. Same basic concept, just a little more energy to it.
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#119866 - 02/27/10 12:23 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: trekguy]
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
I've been watching some videos of Tommy Jones and others. It does include turning the torso. I have no idea how. 2 of my teammates do the same thing. They can walk dead straight and send the ball over the 6th arrow out to the break point. I'm not saying I need to go that deep, cause I have little power, but I'd sure like to borrow some oil from the other half of the lane. So far, walking toward my target, I stand against the ball return and walk towards 3rd arrow. The ball comes up high and comes back with no oil on it. I'd switch back to urethane, but hey...why should everyone else have all the fun;)


Vini, just roll it. I snapped for 20 years and it never got me anything. Watch a video of Pete Weber:)


Edited by JackZ (02/27/10 12:25 PM)
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#119884 - 02/27/10 02:26 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: JackZ]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
Yeah right - Just roll it !!!

I have been trying to : but my muscle memory has some contradictions to that.

I have to keep my mind on the hand to do that.
But when I keep my mind on the hand I f*ck up smth else.

But hey - If it was that easy - it would be us on the telecast (lol)
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#119886 - 02/27/10 02:50 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: Vini]
JackZ Offline
Pro of the Year Contender

Registered: 09/23/09
Posts: 744
A/S/L: 59/M/Cleveland, Ohio
Exactly:)....

I still sometimes snap, and I notice when I do the ball breaks earlier. In my case, that's not good....but I'll keep my mind on the hand like you said ....and the feet...and every other thing:
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White Dot



Better swing, more accuracy, and more spares.
A 200 avg. before summer.

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#119894 - 02/27/10 03:27 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: JackZ]
trekguy Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 11/28/08
Posts: 783
A/S/L: 56/M/Mn
Originally Posted By: JackZ
I've been watching some videos of Tommy Jones and others. It does include turning the torso. I have no idea how. 2 of my teammates do the same thing. They can walk dead straight and send the ball over the 6th arrow out to the break point. I'm not saying I need to go that deep, cause I have little power, but I'd sure like to borrow some oil from the other half of the lane. So far, walking toward my target, I stand against the ball return and walk towards 3rd arrow. The ball comes up high and comes back with no oil on it. I'd switch back to urethane, but hey...why should everyone else have all the fun;)


Vini, just roll it. I snapped for 20 years and it never got me anything. Watch a video of Pete Weber:)


With Tommy Jones and others, the turning of the torso is a result of opening the shoulder to get the nice high backswing, and also makes it easier to stay inside of the ball. He is still lined up with his target.

What you're taking about is probably an adjustment in step two or three which gets you turned towards the target. Tom Smallwood does a little sidestep dance to get left in his approach, for example. You could also drift around the ball return with your feet, and then square up your body to your target. Or, you could do like Robert Smith, and stand in front of the ball return, and take fewer/smaller steps. However it's done, at the foul line, you still need to be squared up to your target with your shoulders and hips, or you will have to chicken-wing it out to the right, and that will not get the roll on it that you will need for that extreme angle. Personally, that is a tough adjustment, imo. There are better ways to get to the pocket, like less ball or less hand, or less rotation... when the lanes dry out.

Pete Weber = roll
Chris Barnes = roll with a little snap
Robert Smith/Sean Rash = roll with a big snap
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#119902 - 02/27/10 03:56 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: JackZ]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
A lot of this comes from your stance and the little things in your approach. Havin the dipped shoulder and the open stance allows this to open the body more. It's what it is designed to do. Additionally, it is also key to take notice of what your balance arm does. Before it takes it's place in the finishing position, it goes down in front of the slide leg for a couple of seconds which allows the torso to become parallel. Thus the turning of the body you are describing. The swing and the balance arm whip the body back into your desired finish position.

As for walking it depends really. You have to find a fine line. Going up the boards, I'd say walk straight as your target line resembles more of post route from football. Heck you can even put your swing-side leg up in the stance to close up the shoulders to help with the more direct lines. It is right in front of you so it behooves you to walk towards your target with your whole body.

Now for going across the lane, I'd say that is different altogether. You have to keep the ball on target in the swing not necessarily your body. Your body position will take care of most of the angle. The biggest problem is that you're thinking walk towards to the target, but with an open stance and the problem of drifting it can be a major problem. For me, I walk at a slight angle or straight and let my stance take care of the rest.

Essentially, it's a change of perspective...for me.

Hope this helps,

The Demolition Man
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#119927 - 02/27/10 05:28 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
When reading responses on this board, just remember that there's no right or wrong in bowling. But if you average 170 like me, you listen to everybody and take what you can get out of every piece of advice.

I used to always walk parallel to the boards, as you did in your 3rd game. Because of all the talk on the board here, I started walking towards my target on some shots, especially spares. I feel that eventually this will be good, but of course in the interim I have to adjust my starting point.

When pros play the deep inside, they do walk the way you described. They will turn their torso towards their target so that the swing remains consistent with respect to their shoulders. Chris Barnes is the best example of this, when he's throwing across the 4th or 5th arrow.

However, I think the point that the coaches make on this board is that for most amateurs, for almost all shots, walking parallel to the boards is not necessary and therefore walking towards the target will give you more consistency.

One final point - when the posts fly hot and heavy and highly opinionated I generally try to post just once and then let the rest say whatever they want, because - frankly - we wouldn't be posting if we weren't opinionated. So even if I don;t agree with the way a thread ends up, my post is there for the record and if anyone agrees with me they can, and if anyone disagrees with me they can. It's not like we all have to end up agreeing on every issue, or even that we have to convince people that our point of view is right.

There's no right or wrong in bowling.



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#119944 - 02/27/10 07:25 PM Re: Walk pattern [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Vini Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 406
A/S/L: 32/m/Al
Originally Posted By: SpareMe

One final point - when the posts fly hot and heavy and highly opinionated I generally try to post just once and then let the rest say whatever they want, because - frankly - we wouldn't be posting if we weren't opinionated. So even if I don;t agree with the way a thread ends up, my post is there for the record and if anyone agrees with me they can, and if anyone disagrees with me they can. It's not like we all have to end up agreeing on every issue, or even that we have to convince people that our point of view is right.

There's no right or wrong in bowling.


well SpareMe - just for the records - I totally agree with you on this one.
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