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#117575 - 02/10/10 07:59 PM Pin up or Pin Down
Rob183 Offline
Action Bowler

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 248
A/S/L: 34/m/Miami, Fl
What is the difference between the pin begin above the fingers and the pin begin below the fingers? When is it better to have the pin above the fingers and when it is better to have it below the fingers?

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#117599 - 02/10/10 11:32 PM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: Rob183]
123seeyah Offline
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Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 79
A/S/L: 26/M/Philippines
Pin down layouts create a sooner and smoother reaction while pin up stores more energy for the midlane and backend.

Pin down on short oil patterns

Pin up on longer oil patterns
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#117607 - 02/11/10 02:18 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: 123seeyah]
willypbowler1 Offline
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Registered: 09/26/08
Posts: 94
A/S/L: 19/M/USA
@123seeyah...i think you mean the other way around lol....pin down on long/heavier patterns puts the ball into a roll sooner and smoother eliminating that skid/flip reaction...pin up gets the ball down lane further on shorter stuff, allowing the ball to conserve some energy and not hook right away on something like cheetah..
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#117629 - 02/11/10 08:02 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: willypbowler1]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
123seeyah is correct. The pin closer to the val (above the fingers) causes the ball to transition (go from skid to hook to roll) quicker. This is a good thing for long oil patterns where the ball only has 10 to 15 feet to go from skid to hook to roll). If the ball is not rolling by the time the ball hits the pocket then you will not carry that well.

If you have the pin far from the val (below the fingers) the ball will spread it's transition through a longer area and will prevent the ball from getting into a roll too fast (burning out). If the ball hits the pocket after burning out, the ball will over deflect and not carry that well.

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#117634 - 02/11/10 08:17 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9225
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Taken from a ball mfgr drill sheet.

"Moving the Pin up and down, in relation to your centerline, changes the length of the ball reaction. A Pin placed towards the center of your grip provides an earlier roll (It is not recommended to place the pin any lower). As the Pin is moved up, the length of the ball reaction will increase."
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#117638 - 02/11/10 08:53 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: Dennis Michael]
cgeorg Offline


Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 3567
A/S/L: Pittsburgh, Pa
Placing the pin above the fingers allows you to drill into the side of the core, creating a stronger asymmetry than if the pin were located below the fingers.
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#117677 - 02/11/10 02:00 PM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: Dennis Michael]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:

"Moving the Pin up and down, in relation to your centerline, changes the length of the ball reaction. A Pin placed towards the center of your grip provides an earlier roll (It is not recommended to place the pin any lower). As the Pin is moved up, the length of the ball reaction will increase."


Read Mo Pinel's dual angle drilling technique search for it on google.

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#117716 - 02/11/10 10:31 PM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: CoachJim]
Dennis Michael Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9225
A/S/L: M/Barrington, Ill
Hey, I just quoted a ball manufacturer's drill sheet.

I read Mo's dual angle. I can follow some of the geometry, but frankly, can't follow the physics.
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#117721 - 02/12/10 01:25 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: Dennis Michael]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Dennis - I think that Coach Jim was just pointing out an alternative way of looking at it. Dual Angle drilling is not all that common.




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#117732 - 02/12/10 07:38 AM Re: Pin up or Pin Down [Re: Dennis Michael]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
In layman's terms placing the pin closer to the vertical axis line will cause the ball to react quicker off the break. If the ball reacts quicker it will roll out quicker and take a shorter distance to go from skid to hook to roll, and Placing the pin farther from the val will spread that distance over a longer period of time. This is why you see pros bowling on the cheetah with pin under and "Rico" drillings . They use pin over the fingers/closer to the val on the Shark pattern because the pattern is 44' long and there is a short distance from the end of the pattern.

Placing the pin under the fingers may start the ball hooking sooner, but it will also stop hooking later pin over the fingers will make the ball stop hooking quicker/roll sooner.

Manufacturer's drill sheets aren't all they should be sometimes. Mo could have discovered the world was round and they wouldn't acknowledge it because they are too competitive and closed minded.


Edited by CoachJim (02/12/10 07:39 AM)

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