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#112515 - 01/06/10 01:25 PM Re: One of my teammates [Re: 10PinGaloot]
Tim Gerard Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 2314
A/S/L: m/ Michigan
This is what I would do if it really bothers you.

Don't go up to them like some hard a$$ and confront them, just walk up and make them aware of his condition. Be polite, say something like,.." You gotta give him credit for even attempting to bowl with those knees" or something of that nature. Inject a little humor yourself, Like SpareMe suggests. If they have any decency at all they will understand and tone it down. They just need to be made aware of your friends knee condition. Bowlers for the most part are pretty understanding, and I suspect these guys will be too.
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#112516 - 01/06/10 01:27 PM Re: One of my teammates [Re: J.Brown]
B-Hammer Offline

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Does he walk with a limp or wear a knee brace? My guess is that he masks his handicap very well and they are mocking the excessive lofting more then his physical problem, by highlighting the physical issue it might just stop the comments.

#112560 - 01/06/10 06:51 PM Re: One of my teammates [Re: J.Brown]
Scott Gannon Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 967
A/S/L: 51/M/California
I agree 100% with Erin. You may end up embarrassing your friend and create a big mess.
Summer 2012-League Average-179, HG-224, HS-595
Fall 2012-2013-League Average-181, HG-237, HS-624
Summer 2013-League Average-189, HG-245, HS-653
Fall 2013-14-League Average-178, HG-228, HS-631

#112624 - 01/07/10 03:10 AM Re: One of my teammates [Re: Scott Gannon]
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 887
A/S/L: 50m
What a shame that the world has so many dropdead ar**holes out there.

My question how does your friend feel when he hears them, do u think he likes it!! Do u think he would rather them STOP? Have u spoken to him about it?

I assume that you and your mate league for the fun, and it sounds like those guys are spoiling it for you, and I would suspect your mate (although he may be use to it, and pays no attention, still doesn't like it, I have never met a human being who enjoys being teased!!)). Your friend has the right not be be bullied, for F**ks sake, you are bowling in an ADULT league .
So, in my roundabout way of saying it, I personally would speak to these guys regardless when u get a chance of explaining that its not too cool a thing to do in stirring a guy with a disability (if possible with humor and personality, make them aware of his knee surgeries as well). This may help the situation, and may cause it to stop, also mention it to the president of the league as well, only after you have spoken to these guys first.
If they take it badly, then they could possibly become worse towards your mate each week (assuming these guys are ar**holes)... It all comes down to whether you think this is acceptable, me I think NO, and well done for becoming involved, you sound like a good friend and decent person..
They could make it worse, they could stop stirring your mate, or they could leave the league, or you and your friend could leave the league and join another one..
But why should u leave if u love your league.. That is where the president comes into, with your treasuruer/other league officials, strengths in numbers. Approach these guys as a group let them know that their behaviour is not acceptable in ANY form of society, let alone league fun bowling, should they continue they will be asked to leave.. I'm sure they annoy/[censored] off other bowlers out there as well, and who knows whether they have caused any bowlers to actually leave the league before, because KNOWONE confronted them...Your league doesn't really need these kinds of people in there does it? These guys will probably turn more bowlers in time away from the sport

Just like the schoolyard bully, people let them get away with it by being too scared or not wanting to cause any further trouble and not reporting it...That is not a solution to a problem!!! I respect all of the posters here, but strongly disagree on this point. Hopefully I have made some sense.. Talk to your mate firstly, find out how he feels.

Now I'm all pumped up, better sit down and have some water.Hope I do not come across as some kind of extreme militant mercenary kinda guy, cause I'm not,I'm actually more of a pacifist by nature I just dislike bullies.

Good luck let us know how it all panned out

#112626 - 01/07/10 03:46 AM Re: One of my teammates [Re: looseleftie]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
You can make this a huge big issue, its up to you. But there are consequences if you do. Your friend might be more embarassed by bringing more attention to his style then he wants. The opposition might just escalate beyond normal league policing. No one is going to quit the leauge. And if by chance they do, they will do so owing money to the leauge (GUARANTEED). The last option, IMO, is that they will quietly accept his style after you have confronted them no matter how you do it. But if bowlers and teams leave, then the league will be restructured the schedule restructured, you might now have a blind team. And all over a battle that you don't even know your friend wants you to fight. Now that might be worth it to you I don't know. But keep in mind that right or wrong, leagues generally don't like "drama" and will disassociate themselves from it if they can. An extreme case is that your friend and you, might not be welcomed back next year.

I see a lot of bowlers with various physical challenges (including knee braces, and all kinds of braces). None of them loft the ball to the arrows (except one that wears no braces at all and is in his mid 30s, and no one in our leauge particularly cares whether he lofts to he arrows or not). So I have my doubts as to whether your friend does this because of his knees or because its just the way he bowls.

Bottom line, your friend is not going to change his style and until the center says he cannot do X or Y, he shouldn't. Nothing in USBC rules cover how far you can or cannot loft the ball. So he's 100% covered in how he wants to bowl. Unless the center steps in.

Just make sure this is the bridge you both want to die on before you start the battle.


#112629 - 01/07/10 06:29 AM Re: One of my teammates [Re: Atochabsh]
looseleftie Offline
Hall of Famer Contender

Registered: 01/31/09
Posts: 887
A/S/L: 50m
Erin wrote "Just make sure this is the bridge you both want to die on before you start the battle.". I like that Erin, must remember that one. That is a great little adage.I have had my glass of water, its not calming me down, but my scotch and coke is working a treat!!!

We don't have any moral police patrolling our bowling leagues, so I guess you have to use your own values and morals. Obviously you have these qualities KoukiGS. Way to go!!

If these guys made racist comments about another bowler, whilst the insult was not directed at you, you are more than entitled to be offended..These comments are not appropriate at work, in the street, shopping malls and bowling centres. Just because it has affected you indirectly, should not mean that u just do or say nothing..

Speak to your friend first, then go from there. To be honest KoukiGS, to do NOTHING is the easy option!!

You give these ar**hole guys licence to continue their offensive behaviour, if not directed at your mate, then it will be some other person down the track from your league, and then someone else later on.. It is a cycle, these guys will continue, its part of their nature/maturity/insecurity, call it what u will. Pick them up on this, and KoukiGS you will feel better about this.

Erin, if u rock the league boat, then perhaps the boat needs rocking. The league surely wouldn't condone this type of behaviour. Nor would they want other bowlers to not enjoy themselves because of a very small minority. What are the rest of the bowlers like in this league? Fair minded individuals who turn up every week to bowl and have fun.. Money should not be a consideration into your actions, nor having to restructure a season to get rid of some bad wood!!. There are things far more important than money..

Think about what kind of league you want. I know that if you were to approach these guys, and mention in a joking and friendly manner "hey guys, ease up on Mick down there, hes had 2 knee operations, and hes still bowling in pain, give him a break". Then that couldn't hurt much could it?..

Out of curiosity, what are these guys like for the most part? Are they approachable? Are they bear drink red necks, who would be more interested in shovering your head into a ball return , rather than listening to your point of view?

Look forward to hearing back

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