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#111823 - 12/31/09 04:09 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Joe Bowler]
who's that Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 35 Male New Jersey
The difference of 10 pins over the course of 34 weeks equals well over a 1000 pins. If I knock down 1000 pins more then you over the course of the season, sorry Joe your not my equal! If you believe that then fine.

In regards to your 5 ABT titles in DC, I'm proud of you! Joe I live in new Jersey, one of 5 states recognized as having the best bowlers in the country. Know one strives to be at the 220 level out here, its the norm. PBA champions are likely to me bowling in your league, and in every scratch tournement.

Joe my teammate has over 100 (300). He's in the record books, just a click can cure your "exaggeration" remarks! He owns just about every record in the state with the exception of a 900. Just about all house records go throw him.

Back on topic. The 215 to 225 average bowler has a very slim chance of winning a handicap tournament around "these parts". I can't speak for your hometown. And the odds of that same average group out bowling the 240+ crowd is even slimmer, that's all I'm saying.
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Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#111828 - 12/31/09 04:47 PM Re: Baggers [Re: who's that]
Joe Bowler Offline
2x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 3824
A/S/L: 50s/M/MD
Originally Posted By: who's that
The difference of 10 pins over the course of 34 weeks equals well over a 1000 pins. If I knock down 1000 pins more then you over the course of the season, sorry Joe your not my equal! If you believe that then fine.

In regards to your 5 ABT titles in DC, I'm proud of you! Joe I live in new Jersey, one of 5 states recognized as having the best bowlers in the country. Know one strives to be at the 220 level out here, its the norm. PBA champions are likely to me bowling in your league, and in every scratch tournement.

Joe my teammate has over 100 (300). He's in the record books, just a click can cure your "exaggeration" remarks! He owns just about every record in the state with the exception of a 900. Just about all house records go throw him.

Back on topic. The 215 to 225 average bowler has a very slim chance of winning a handicap tournament around "these parts". I can't speak for your hometown. And the odds of that same average group out bowling the 240+ crowd is even slimmer, that's all I'm saying.

First, I will agree you are not my equal. cool

What you seem to be missing is that even the same bowler in the same house on a different night of the week can vary by 10-20 pins in average. For example, I am currently averaging 219 on Wednesday and 229 on Saturday at the same house. Are you suggesting that I am not capable of competing against myself?!

As another example, if you look at the exempt pros averages you will find a wider variance than you might expect. And, these are the best of the best. When you factor in the different tour stops, different surfaces, different oil patterns, obviously, the gap among bowlers widens. Are you suggesting that the lower average pros should pack it up and quit?! Or, skip certain tour stops because it does not favor their game?!

It's great for you to be surrounded by top-notch bowlers. That would be the ideal learning, if not competing, environment. And, if the guy with the 245-255 average and a hundred 300 games is real, more power to him. What's his name? My comment was that he is an anomaly, and I would not expect him to have any trouble competing against the pros. The PBA tour would be a more appropriate level of competition for him, not lurking around subbing in leagues, trying to stay under the 21 game limit, in order to compete in handicap tournaments.

I do know what you mean about there being a "dead zone" for bowlers that don't get enough pins to dominate handicap tournaments, and are not quite good enough to dominate scratch tournaments. For those competitors, it is frequently necessary to "pay their dues" and keep working on their games in order to successfully compete at the scratch level.

By the way, I will be at Carolier Lanes in North Brunswick, NJ tomorrow, New Year's Day, for a $6,000 Brunswick-sponsored scratch tournament. I hope all of the best bowlers in New Jersey show up, including Parker Bohn (my favorite bowler from NJ). Last time there was a tournament there, the 3 guys that went there from the DC/MD area, including myself, took home several thousand dollars in prize money, plus a few new Brunswick bowling balls. smile
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#111838 - 12/31/09 06:04 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Joe Bowler]
Atochabsh Offline
USBC Bronze Coach

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 6567
A/S/L: 50/F/California
Quote:
Around these parts, it is rare for handicap tournaments to give pins for bowlers with averages above 220.


All our tournaments try to handicap over the highest averaged participant, or expected highest averaged participant. That means that sometimes the handicap is X% of 230 or X% of 240. Same with many of our handicap leagues. If you do not handicap over the highest average partipant then you are giving that bowler "free" pins in which he/she can miss their average and not take a penalty because everyone else is only brought up to lets say 210 or 200 handicapped.

We too have some very good bowlers in our assoc. I think at one time I counted over 50 that were averaging/book average over 225. Many of those bowlers have spouses and significant others that also bowl but not at that level. They like to bowl together. And that's when you find a couple 230+ bowlers in a mixed "fun" handicap league and tournaments.

But I'm not talking about rerating a bowler that is 10 pins or so different from year to year or center to center. We're talking about bowlers that sub in 7 to 10 leagues until they get to just short of 21 games and then they stop subbing or quit the league. Then they choose the one league they are doing the worst at and start "average management", which usually means about 20 pins different from their subbing history. All of a sudden you look at their tournament results and they are cashing multiple times a month! Brackets! and their tournament average is also 20 pins different from their subbing history.

Erin

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#111846 - 12/31/09 06:56 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Joe Bowler]
who's that Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 35 Male New Jersey
The purpose of bowling all over has to do with which houses have the biggest pot games, bracket, and strike pots, I assumed that was obvious. I'm very familiar with Carolier Lanes in New Brunswick's, its probably a hour away from me. I bowled in a pro-am there a few years back. I bowled with Randy Peterson, Mike Scroggins, and someone I've never heard of.

I'm assuming the event you and your friends cashed in was this past summer, you got a Brunswick Seige for entering right? If I didn't know better I would of thought you won them..

In regards to you bowling yourself, I'm in the same place as you are currently. I average 13 pins better on Monday night then I do on Thursday, with that said I as well as you know what my true average is.. My Thursday night league takes me out of my comfort zone, and forces me to play the lanes dramatically different, that's why I joined! There's a good chance Charlie Bruno, Jay Stadler,and Robert Smith Jr. Will be there. I look forward to hearing good news from you tomorrow night, best of luck!

In regards to why isn't he on tour, well that's simply. Bowling doesn't pay to well for the most part. To the best of my knowledge he's one of those trust fund kids. You know the kind of person that spends more money a year on bowling balls then most do on groceries..
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#111847 - 12/31/09 06:58 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Joe Bowler]
who's that Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 35 Male New Jersey
The purpose of bowling all over has to do with which houses have the biggest pot games, bracket, and strike pots, I assumed that was obvious. I'm very familiar with Carolier Lanes in New Brunswick's, its probably a hour away from me. I bowled in a pro-am there a few years back. I bowled with Randy Peterson, Mike Scroggins, and someone I've never heard of.

I'm assuming the event you and your friends cashed in was this past summer, you got a Brunswick Seige for entering right? If I didn't know better I would of thought you won them..

In regards to you bowling yourself, I'm in the same place as you are currently. I average 13 pins better on Monday night then I do on Thursday, with that said I as well as you know what my true average is.. My Thursday night league takes me out of my comfort zone, and forces me to play the lanes dramatically different, that's why I joined! There's a good chance Charlie Bruno, Jay Stadler,and Robert Smith Jr. Will be there. I look forward to hearing good news from you tomorrow night, best of luck!

In regards to why isn't he on tour, well that's simply. Bowling doesn't pay to well for the most part. To the best of my knowledge he's one of those trust fund kids. You know the kind of person that spends more money a year on bowling balls then most do on groceries.

























Edited by who's that (12/31/09 06:59 PM)
_________________________
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#111913 - 01/01/10 11:08 AM Re: Baggers [Re: who's that]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
This is all for this tourney. He can get into this tourney as many times as he can get partners and can cash as many times as he is in the money. Last year, he won 1st in 2 of the 3 divisions. That is $500 per win. He probably won $1600 last year. It only cost $13 to get in it. The last 3 years, he has taken first 6 times and probably won around $5K.

I am waiting on an e-mail from his teammates. They don't want to be left without a teammate. They are calling around to get someone to bowl for the rest of the year. They have already said that he will not be invited back to their team next year. The only way he will be able to bowl is if he gets a completely different team cause no one in the league wants him.

This is an unsanctioned tourney. But, he does bowl other tourneys like State and I think he bowls the Hoinke too. I will do some research and ask the alley on his past performances in the no-tap.
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#111929 - 01/01/10 02:58 PM Re: Baggers [Re: General Pounder]
B-Hammer Offline
Legend

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 1818
A/S/L: 30/M/Bellingham WA
Just curious but is there a chance this guy is just a lot better at no-tap then standard 10 pin? If the handicap is from a standard league maybe it's a case where he just has poor carry and can easily get 9's but strikes are a problem?

If that isn't the case had he is intentionally bagging that's pretty sad and very frustrating.

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#111952 - 01/01/10 09:02 PM Re: Baggers [Re: B-Hammer]
Fin09 Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 1153
A/S/L: 51/M/Virginia Beach, VA
We had a team removed a couple of years ago from our league, but it took all year to accumulate enough evidence. We had the center print out every score sheet for about 18-20 weeks to show how they would go from throwing strikes and high count spares to gutter balls, 3-5 count open frames, and obvious low scores.
As far as getting someone tossed out of a no-tap tournament, good luck with that. If someone wants to win a handicap no-tap tournament so bad that he bags in league, he's a lousy teammate, and you're better off asking his teammates not to ask him back next season. He probably costs his team enough games in January or February that what he wins in prize money in the no-tap event might offset the lower amount of league prize money that his team gets in the spring.
As far as the 245-255 average, 100x 300 game bowler mentioned above, if his name isn't Jeff Carter, I'd say it was a classic case of internet embellishment. Although hundreds of guys could average that in 15-21 games, but stretch it out over 60+ games, and then you have something.
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#112021 - 01/02/10 04:50 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Fin09]
General Pounder Offline
3x Virtual League Champion

Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 3397
A/S/L: 40/M/Midlothian, IL
This guy is missing on purpose. He also normally throws a 14lb Fury Pearl. During these last 2 weeks, he has gone to a 11lb White Dot. Bad carry is one thing, missing pocket then throwing in the gutter on a spare that has the head pin is on purpose.
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#112048 - 01/02/10 11:39 PM Re: Baggers [Re: Fin09]
who's that Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 489
A/S/L: 35 Male New Jersey
Fin09, stick to Virginia bowling politics..
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Buzz Attack

Secondary Equipment

Sting Widow Maker
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