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#108436 - 11/24/09 12:01 AM Spinning the ball
beefers1 Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
I've always spun the ball (PAP around 2-1/4" over and 1-1/4" up, and a good 75 degrees or so of axis tilt). I am able to hook the whole lane (I'm not a helicopter bowler by any means), albeit with a slow speed, and it seems that the deeper inside I get the more axis tilt I put on it. I probably developed it out of habit since it went unnoticed until fairly recently. Is it something that needs to be changed immediately, or is it still possible to become a good bowler with it?


Edited by beefers1 (11/24/09 12:06 AM)

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Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
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#108451 - 11/24/09 06:43 AM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: beefers1]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
One of the best bowlers I have known was a spinner and had more revs and hooked the ball more than anyone I have ever seen.

He averaged 220+ back in the days of plastic, he quit bowling before the reactive era, so I don't know if he would have done well with all of the modern equipment over reacting as I'm shure it would. He would probably go back to using non reactive urethane equipment and still do fairly well.

He could make the 3-7 split with the ball, and he could do a trick shot where he would hook the ball out of the gutter and get a strike. Gutters were shallower back then too, wood lanes, no bumpers or urethane lanes over top of the wood making the gutters deeper like now.

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#108462 - 11/24/09 02:50 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: CoachJim]
beefers1 Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
Wow. But you did say that modern equipment tends to overreact with spinning?

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#108484 - 11/24/09 07:58 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: beefers1]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
How do you get it to hook with a high axis tilt? Pretty impressive,
Well anyway, my thoughts:
1 - there's a guy at my old center who throws a shot like you describe. He consistently gets 180 - 200 in open bowling.
2 - I have a shot I call planetary rotation that has high access tilt. I only use it for wierd lane conditions. I'ts hard for me to get it to break at the same point every time.
3 - You can adjust to changing lane conditions by use of different balls or by diffeent releases. I prefer different releases.
4 - speed is a critical component, You can alter your amount of hook by speedin gup or slowing down.
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#108485 - 11/24/09 08:24 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
10PinGaloot Offline
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Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
i mispelled axis tilt....
Any who, whatever. 75* axis tilt is only 15* away from being a spinner. Are you sure it's that severe? Can you tell us what is the tilt when it enters the pocket? If the tilt is 0 at pocket entry, then the shot is working as normal. If not, then it's working more like a spinner. Spinners get different pin action (BTW my spinner is approaching a 200 average now).

I bet you could change your release a little and get a few variations that would allow for more options. They might not be applicable in the THS or whatever you normally bowl on, but could come in handy on rainy days. (BTW it never rains in the other Vancouver wink.)

The keys to 200+ is "string 'em" and "spare till you strike".

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"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
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current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#108496 - 11/24/09 10:37 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
beefers1 Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
"Access" tilt? Huh?

SpareMe, the tilt is far from 0 at the pins. I'll take some video with a piece of tape on the ball to figure out exactly how the ball's rolling down the lane.

My problem is that I can't string strikes. I can make spares most of the time, but just can't get the double or triple necessary to shoot 200. If I do, I usually "compensate" by opening a lot of frames.

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#108497 - 11/24/09 10:48 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: beefers1]
10PinGaloot Offline
Legend

Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 2094
A/S/L: 65/m/ Woodburn, OR
Yeah, a video would be great. We might be able to see some ways to modify the release.

Bowling is highly stochastic, and you want to improve your chances of scoring on any single throw. That can be done various ways.

I can't say that limiting yourself to a single throw will relegate you to sub-200 average. I would say that first and foremost, form is critical. I notice as my form has improved, my shorts have crossed the arrows at the target spot more consistently. That usually translates to higher scores, unless, like me, you throw a gazillion differeent muscled ways. But for normal folks, form is the key to improvement. I think that, with perfect form, you could do 200+ avg with any release, especially if you have multiple balls.

I think though in a couple of years you might move to 15# and see 10-20 pins improvement just from that.

Just to remind, my avg is 170-180, so I don't speak as an elite bowler but just from my own experience.

Hey, you oughta come down and visit sometime!

_________________________
"If it ain't workin', you're either throwing the ball wrong or throwing the wrong ball."
"Follow the oil!"
"Dry lanes ain't worth a shot!"
"I love the smell of lane conditioner in the morning!"
current avatar is Gabby Hayes. Looks a lot like me! smile


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#108500 - 11/24/09 11:46 PM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
beefers1 Offline
Legend

Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 1241
A/S/L: 24/M/British Columbia
We're getting ridiculous levels of rainfall here, though many communities on Vancouver Island have it worse, with flooding. But I don't care about rain; I hate snow most. We rarely get snow here (3rd least snowfall in Canada), but last year's winter was horrible. It snowed for a good 40-50 days in December-January and made everything that much harder. Transportation was severely disrupted and stores ran out of provisions. Sure would be nice to go down south for awhile! But next year I'll hopefully be moving to Toronto for university (it snows even more there but I think I can handle it).

Thanks, I think I'll stick to this release and work on my accuracy and consistency first (and, of course, spare shooting). When I buy new equipment at university next year I might try 15lb equipment but can't make say for sure that I'll make the switch.

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#108520 - 11/25/09 08:17 AM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: 10PinGaloot]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
Quote:
How do you get it to hook with a high axis tilt?


Axis rotation = hook as long as it is not 90 degrees of tilt, that would be a helicopter shot and would go dead straight.

Beefers, put a piece of tape on your pap for a shot or two on your video, I would like to see how your ball rotates compared to my old teammate.

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#108528 - 11/25/09 09:49 AM Re: Spinning the ball [Re: CoachJim]
sk8shorty01 Offline
Virtual League Champion x2

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 5163
A/S/L: 30/M/Merritt Island, FL
I agree, take a video with some tape on the ball to show its rotation. We should be able to help from there.
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