BowlingFans.com, The site for the fans, by the fans....
Sponsored Links




ChatBox:

Sponsored Links


Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#107940 - 11/16/09 02:39 PM Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed?
Zeph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 67
A/S/L: 23, male, Norway
I used to squeeze the ball and also believe that my terrible accuracy (missing a lot right, sometimes left) is partially because of the arm forcing the ball down.

In a teaching video with Norm Duke he said that you should let balance arm do the work and just let the ball arm tag along. Any muscles working should only be the wrist, depending on how you play.
I'm too a golfer, where I also use the arms a lot (which I'd rather I didn't), so I foresee that removing this habit of pulling the ball will be hard to achieve.

One thing I will work on is getting the balance arm out ahead of me at the approach, and also let it carry the weight of the ball until it fall into the swing. This could help preventing the muscles in the right arm from tightening up. I think my timing is a bit off, so the ball is coming late.

Would it work to just stand at the foul line, ball extended, letting it drop and just release when it comes back forward, trying to not pull it? I've thought about injecting anaesthetic into the arm and hand to prevent squeezing and pulling, but that would be a bit much I think. laugh

Top
#10100 - 1 second ago Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links Online   content
Legend

Registered: Fri Aug 27 2004
Posts: 10100
A/S/L: Mountain View, CA
Top
#107943 - 11/16/09 02:59 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: Zeph]
n777bh Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 25
A/S/L: 53/M/CA
I can give you better advice on golf than bowling...

You should focus on a shoulder turn, with the arms tagging along for your golf swing. For bowling it sounds like your feet are ahead of your swing so you have to tug the ball down to catch up. That is a continuing problem that I have to deal with too.
_________________________
Lefty
Equipment:
Invasion
Virtual Energy (1500P)
Seige (1500)
Reign (1500P)
Fast (2000P)
Ice (4000P)
Gadget Wrist Support

League Avg 205
Best Series 717
Best Game 300 (2)
Axis Rotation/Tilt 75-80/10 up
Speed/Revs 17.5/325

Top
#107945 - 11/16/09 03:04 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: n777bh]
Zeph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 67
A/S/L: 23, male, Norway
I've read and studied so much about the golf swing, I pretty much know what my problem is there. The biggest problem is making the change.

One thing I wondered about one day. How can you increase the speed of a bowling ball without using muscles in the arm? Or are you supposed to use them right before the release when the line is established and the rest determining the speed and revs of the ball?

I've been looking for a similar graph in a golf swing. Showing the speed of the club throughout the swing. It would show you when the club, or bowling ball, starts building up speed. There is no way I can relax the arm completely through the swing and throw it at 15mph. Not that 15mph is my goal, but something has to power up the ball when you can throw at 10mph one throw very relaxed and 15mph the next one.

Edit: Come to think of it, I've read that the position of the ball determine the speed. Keeping it low from start to the 0 gravity point will give low speed, keeping it high from start and getting it high up in the backswing, like Tommy Jones, give high speed. Kinda answered my own question there, but I'd still like to know if you should boost it at any point through the swing.

When Tommy Jones brings it very high back, must he not use the arm to push it that far up? Does he then just let it drop from the top?


Edited by Zeph (11/16/09 03:07 PM)

Top
#107951 - 11/16/09 03:44 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: Zeph]
n777bh Offline
Junior

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 25
A/S/L: 53/M/CA
Obviously your clubhead speed has the greatest amount of acceleration when you release the hands and the later the better.

Many folks advocate the "free arm pendulum swing" while bowling. That will result in a smooth acceration of the ball from the top reaching peak speed at the bottom. As such, your speed largely depends on the height of the ball at the push off. The rest is due to footwork and hand action. I get about 17.5 mph (28 kph) using more or less a free arm swing. I've started working on helping it with my arm muscles, but my accuracy still suffers when I do.


Edited by n777bh (11/16/09 03:52 PM)
_________________________
Lefty
Equipment:
Invasion
Virtual Energy (1500P)
Seige (1500)
Reign (1500P)
Fast (2000P)
Ice (4000P)
Gadget Wrist Support

League Avg 205
Best Series 717
Best Game 300 (2)
Axis Rotation/Tilt 75-80/10 up
Speed/Revs 17.5/325

Top
#107967 - 11/16/09 05:52 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: n777bh]
Time-To-Roll Offline
Team USA Contender

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 434
A/S/L: female, Port Angeles Wa. right...
Zeph,
Watch Rino Page, he is on youtube in slow motion. Notice how he puts the ball into the swing,holds the ball low lifting up and out. His non bowling hand is off the ball very quickly thus ball dropping into swing a lot sooner than you think. You don't need to go over your head in the backswing like he does. You just need to get that ball down and up and into the top of swing early to keep up with your slide and release. Think ball moving a little ahead of feet.
Time To Roll


Edited by Time-To-Roll (11/16/09 06:03 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

Top
#107986 - 11/16/09 09:31 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: Time-To-Roll]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Zeph,

There are numerous things you can do you relax your bowling arm. First and foremost is to have a good fit so that you do not have squeeze the ball at any part throughout the swing. Adding more or less tension or pressure during the swing can affect what it is you are trying to do. Then there are the swing plane issues involved with grabbing the ball. Because you have to grab the ball you are essentially controlling the swing. This causes you to compensate one way or another. Your ball sailing out to the right is probably a result of you pushing the ball out to left a tick and forcing the swing to come back to the right.

I tell myself when I'm on the approach to go for the Zero G-Spot, that is, where the ball is completely weightless at the top of the swing. Also I tell my arm and hand to relax (muscle memory is hard to reverse).

Additionally, I see a lot of people, guys especially, try to completely dominate a ball with their upper body. So in turn that translates into ripping the hell out of the ball, which usually requires a lot of grabbing and muscling. However, as you know, bowling like other sports, involves the entire body, so some of those revs or speed can either be made up or surpassed by generating power with your legs. As for the shifting of weight from the left hand to the right, it takes a little bit of time to get the timing down. I'm working on that myself. And if you do try the free swing, your timing will be very screwed up because you have to get your arm to swing with extra weight in it while walking on the approach like you were walking down the street.

Another thing that could help is that you don't throw the ball (unless loft is needed) you roll it. Hurling the ball down the lane again is usually a result of a lot of muscle which equals a lot tension.

The last that I can think of is to use a free swing. Then your arm is completely free of tension with every swing. I know some people like the old plant n pull or whatever, but the first time I got my swing free, it instantly felt different, ball speed rose and my revs increased...a lot and my arm didn't hurt afterwards. You have to think of the free swing in the terms that the ball is the car, gravity is the driver and your arm...well it's just along for the ride. There's a two person drill, but it is a great way to get used to the ball swinging freely. You have someone stand in front of you, they are holding your fully exstended arm with the ball in it. They drop it and you let it swing back and then when it comes forward they catch it. Alas, the Kung-Fu, Dim Mak deathgrip is the biggest deterent of the free swing. So again, check your fit.

As for your question about TJ. He uses a different type of pushaway called the swinging-hinge. It pretty much allows him to drop his ball into his pushaway instantly. His high backswing is a result of a few different things, but all in all it works for him.

Oh that reminds me, since we're talking about TJ. He does something that no one else on tour and no one else that I know, does. He inserts his thumb first and then his fingers. This is to reduce grip-pressure on the hand. Reduced grip pressure=less tension in swing arm. Joe Slowinski I think, investigated this as well. I've tried it, and I felt the difference. BTWs it is also a great way to see if your span is off.

Anywho, I hope this helps. thumbsup

Demo-Man



Edited by TheDemolitionMan (11/16/09 09:58 PM)
_________________________
Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.


Top
#107999 - 11/17/09 07:59 AM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Zeph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 67
A/S/L: 23, male, Norway
The fit is important. I addressed the issue some weeks ago and have made good progress. The fit is good, but I've opened the thumb hole too much due to the squeezing when I first started bowling. I currently only got tape to put on my thumb, but I will get some to put in the hole instead. I don't think the tape I got today is meant to be put into the hole.

I definately throw the ball, lunge it down the lane. Probably about halfway to the arrows. I tried one day to get the ball to release earlier, as I imagined, the ball hooked way too much because it started rolling earlier. Also something I've been planning to work on, I see now that all of these problems are related. And of course they are, as in golf, every action has a reaction, everything is linked together.

My primary focus will then be to have a good fit so I won't squeeze and work on a free swing. I'll have to see if my timing is late too. If the ball is too far behind I will have to pull it. The part about throwing the ball will hopefully be gone as a result of my work on a free swing without muscles.

When leaving pins on the left side of the lane I usually move 4-6 pins, use the same target (board 10) and make a slower throw. When doing this I think I'm more relaxed. As an experiment I could try moving further to the left to where I need less speed and good revs to get into the pocket. This might help unlearn the habit of throwing the ball hard. If successful, I can move to the right and increase the length of the backswing as I progress. I'm sure that in the beginning, if I keep my target and position, I will be tempted to muscle the ball to prevent it from spinning over to the left.

I did work on my timing one day, trying not to pull the ball. Probably one of my most accurate days ever, but muscle memory takes time to change, or get rid of.

I found an article by Ron Clifton on backswing length, with graphic showing how a movable suspension point can increase the length of the backswing. I don't want to emulate TJ, just interesting to learn how all the parts of the swing works.
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/tip41_files/tip41.htm

It helps a lot, thanks for your help so far!

Top
#108027 - 11/17/09 02:21 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: Zeph]
TheDemolitionMan Offline
Virtual League Champion

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 2839
A/S/L: 23/Male/California, US
Good to hear. It won't be an easy road and it'll take a while to consistently get a free relaxed swing to occur. It's been about 2 years and mine has finally just gotten free on a consistent basis.

The other thing you could do are one-step drills. They are very hard but worth it in the end. I believe Tony Reyes displays them very well on Youtube.

All the things that I've mentioned will help you out. And Ron Clifton and Joe Slowinski's sites have helped me out tremendously as well.

As for not emulating TJ. Why not? There are parts of his game that I think are great to emulate. The swinging-hinge, strong release, perhaps the thumb in first then the fingers, and most importantly IMO, is how clean he is at the line.
_________________________
Be like water making its way through cracks. Don't be assertive, but adjust to the object, and you shall find a way around or through it. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves.


Top
#108045 - 11/17/09 07:49 PM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: TheDemolitionMan]
Zeph Offline
League Bowler

Registered: 04/18/09
Posts: 67
A/S/L: 23, male, Norway
I don't even know what "the line" is. blush

Went to the alley today, with mixed experiences.

Getting the ball lower and release closer to the foul line: When I got it right, this felt really good. I had to get my knee much more flexed. I noticed at the same time that I had little to none slide, the last step was just that, a step. I end up a foot or two from the foul line. I tried pushing through harder at the third step, but that got me mixed up with relaxing the arm at the same time. When getting the slide it felt like I was using the weight of the entire body to pull the ball and lunge it forward.

Relaxed arm: No idea really. I focused on it, but without any reference points it's really impossible to tell. One ball rolls at 14mph, another at 12, without me knowing what caused either. I can roll it really slow at 9-10 mph, but I might hold it back when doing that. I see why it takes years to perfect, because I don't know how I'm going to approach that issue.

The release: There is another problem when relaxing the arm and hand. I used to throw the ball down, whip the arm up and create both speed and revs. Today I had trouble getting the revs. I seem to be going back and forth between a late release where the ball pops off my thumb when it's extended out in front of me, giving me no revs, and a release where I try to get the thumb out earlier, but end up banging it down on the floor prematurely.
This is probably the thing that annoys me the most. I can miss left and right off my mark, but if I got good revs it doesn't feel that bad. Throwing shots at 13 mph that just slides by the pocket on the right side is really depressing. Without a proper release I'll have to roll the ball slower than I feel comfortable with.

The ball is spinning, but not like I want it to. Timing the release with a relaxed hand, knowing when the thumb exits and when to apply the rotation, it's difficult.
On a positive note I managed to roll a couple of straight spare shots today. I've wanted to practise a straight shot for spares on the right side of the lane, today I finally got the ball rolling straight. Still missed my mark, so the ball didn't hit any pins, but it was a small victory.

One of the guys I play with tell me I take the ball back behind my back on the backswing. Possibly another flaw I've ingrained from the golf swing, and maybe one reason to why I'm proned to miss right.

My order on Ron C's Magic Carpet was shipped today. Hope that will help me out. Also got some tape on the order. I'll run out of thumb tape at the rate I'm using it at today.


Edited by Zeph (11/17/09 07:58 PM)

Top
#108069 - 11/18/09 06:22 AM Re: Drills on keeping the bowling arm relaxed? [Re: Zeph]
CoachJim Offline
USBC Silver Coach

Registered: 09/19/06
Posts: 4665
A/S/L: Reston, Virginia USA
It sounds like your ball doesn't fit your hand properly and you have to squeeze the ball to hang onto it. Squeezing the ball causes your entire arm to tighten up all the way to the shoulder and causes you to have to swing the ball with your back.

I don't know what type of facilities or qualified ball drillers or coaches you have in Norway, so it might take many many trips to the shop to get a ball to fit your hand so you don't have to squeeze it.

As far as "spinning" the ball down the lane, you don't want to spin the ball at all. To get the rotation you want, you just need to keep your hand behind the ball and tilted to the release, when the thumb comes out of the ball, extend your fingers through the bottom of the ball and the angle your hand was in will rotate your hand as the ball rolls off your thumb, so the weight of the ball rotates your hand, not the other way around.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



Moderator:  Angel, Community Manager 
Savings That Support BowlingCommunity.com
We need your help!
Rather than begging for donations we're asking you to do one simple thing to help keep these forums running smooth:
When shopping for anything on Amazon.com or eBay please use these links to go to the web sites.

This won't cost you a cent!
You'll still get the exact same low prices, deals and free or low cost shipping; it doesn't change anything for you at all! The items do not have to be bowling related; all purchases made through these links help us! Amazon.com and eBay will pay us a small commission for every sale and it's helping us cover the expenses.

BowlingCommunity.com Recent Posts
Fall/Winter 2018-19 Leagues Thread
by Fin09 - 12/14/18 11:31 AM
New Pro Shop Near My House
by Mkirchie - 11/26/18 05:05 PM
Trying to keep my throw straight
by spr3wr - 11/24/18 08:49 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all
by djp1080 - 11/22/18 10:49 AM
Terms Of Use
Use of this community signifies your agreement to the Community Standards and Conditions of Use.

About BowlingFans.com | Contact Us | Advertise With Us | Site Map
Use of this website constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. | Material Connection Disclosure

Copyright © 1998 - 2018 - usrbingeek LLC | Copyright Policy
BowlingFans.com, BowlingFans, The Right Approach, Kegler's Connection, Tour411, BallBeat, BowlingCommunity.com, BowlSearch.com, and Bowling News You Can Use are trademarks of usrbingeek LLC. All other trademarks and tradenames are property of their respective owners.