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#10691 - 05/21/03 06:29 PM Re: Sore on ring finger
Dope Vector Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 26/M/Memphis, TN
Hey Tom,
Well, I can slide my fingers in to about halfway between my first and second knuckles without much of a problem. I'm pretty sure that hasn't changed much since I first got the ball. I've probably logged about 60 games on the ball so far. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to having inserts fit tighter? You said it was largely a personal preference, so I guess I'm asking why do you prefer them to be a tighter fit?

On another note, I've heard people talk about oval finger inserts. I'm pretty sure the inserts I have in my ball currently would be considered circular. I know they have a slight pitch toward my thumb. You had said previously that an oval insert would relax the pitch a bit. What effect would that have on my release/ball reaction?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions Tom.
_________________________
-b

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#10692 - 05/22/03 11:07 AM Re: Sore on ring finger
Bowlerski Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 388
A/S/L: 40+/Male/Fremont, Michigan
Hello DV!

To start with the answers, I'm going to start with the la
_________________________
Keep 'em falling...

Tom

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#10693 - 05/22/03 11:09 AM Re: Sore on ring finger
Bowlerski Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 388
A/S/L: 40+/Male/Fremont, Michigan
Hello DV!

To start with the answers, I'm going to start with the last one, and move up the ladder. The slight relaxing of the pitch from what sounds like a "Lift" grip to an "Oval" would have a minimal difference in ball reaction. I personally don't see where the slight increase in rotation (maybe 1/2 rev) with the lift grip is any more beneficial when compared to the oval grip. Before I get bombarded with contrary comments, let me state that you can get a similar feel with the lifts compared to the ovals with the same reaction as traditional lift pitches by relaxing the pitch approx 1/16-1/8 with the lifts. Too often a person will get fitted for an oval, then decide to go to lifts, and the pitches are to steep for the hand to relax, and the person has trouble getting out of the ball cleanly. I've also often seen where the shop operator just doesn't take the increased pitch into consideration when putting a person into lifts. Once again, it is a matter of personal preference as to which grip you use. The lifts were designed to give you more lift on the shot. The delivery of a reactive/particle shell ball has changed somewhat from the old urethane release where it was somewhat beneficial to almost hit "up" on the ball. Now it is critical to hit "out" with the shot. Since many people were using the lifts with the urethane equipment, they got used to the feel, and carried over that to the new equipment.

To answer why I prefer the more snug fit is that way I get a better, more consistant feel for the ball. the best way I can describe it would be like this. You have work gloves on, and you want to pick up a small nail. Which would be easier to do it with, a glove that is 3 sizes too big, or one that is the correct size? The correct fitting one of course. The same logic for the ball. A correct fitting/snug grip will allow you to get the same feel over and over again without having to "fidgit" with the fingers while setting up the shot. Not to mention that if the grip is too big, it is like getting the thumbhole drilled too big, it leads to squeezing the shot to hold onto the ball.

If you are able to get your fingers buried to between the first and second knuckle with little to no effort I'd have to say that it sounds as if the grips are worn out very badly! If that is the way they were from the beginning, I'd say that they weren't fitted properly from the beginning. You may want to get re-fitted with a smaller grip and see the difference. You may want to try the ovals and see how they feel. Hopefully the shop operator has a grip fitting ball or station and you can feel the difference between an oval and a lift before you purchase them, and see which feels better.

Sorry for the post being similar in length to "War and Peace", but had a bunch of info to get out. Hope it helps, and the hand heals soon!
_________________________
Keep 'em falling...

Tom

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#10694 - 05/22/03 01:58 PM Re: Sore on ring finger
Dope Vector Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 26/M/Memphis, TN
Hey Tom,
Thanks for taking the time to address all that. It sounds like I need to get my finger inserts replaced regardless of whether or not they are still causing the problems with my finger.

The only real concern I have with getting a really snug fit on the finger inserts is again problems with sticking like I had with my thumb. I'm not sure if this is as much of a problem with fingers, and I'm not sure the amount of swelling I experience in my fingers while bowling. I think you had already read the story of my thumb swelling and contracting somewhat dramatically while bowling multiple games. I honestly haven't paid a great deal of attention to how my fingers change, but I don't recall feeling like my finger fit was changing dramatically. This could simply be due to the fact that they weren't snug enough to notice any appreciable change to begin with.

Anyway, I certainly have more things to discuss with my Pro Shop guy, and I feel a little better equipped to discuss them with him. Thanks for your help Tom.
_________________________
-b

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#10695 - 05/22/03 02:21 PM Re: Sore on ring finger
Bowlerski Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 388
A/S/L: 40+/Male/Fremont, Michigan
Hey DV!

Not a problem, glad to help. As far as the concern about sticking in the ball with the grips being too tight, you want them snug, not tight. Generally if you can comfortably get your fingers up to the first knuckle and they stop you are in the right area. You want to be able to get your finger to the knuckle, but not past it. This will allow for a snug fit, but not a tight one. Generally speaking you can have your fingers a little more snug than your thumb. Your fingers will release just fine, as the ball will be leaving your hand by the time the fingers are coming out, and with proper pitches, they should impart the rotoation, and leave the ball cleanly.
_________________________
Keep 'em falling...

Tom

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#10696 - 05/23/03 07:06 AM Re: Sore on ring finger
Dope Vector Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 26/M/Memphis, TN
Hey Tom,
Thanks for addressing my concerns with the snug fit. I won't have a chance to talk with my Pro Shop guy for a bit, but I'll let you know how things go. My hand is still in the process of healing after I played on it semi healed after the last change. I still don't know if the beveling is the solution or not, although I'm thinking it probably won't be. I guess we'll see. Thanks for all the help.
_________________________
-b

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#10697 - 05/23/03 10:58 PM Re: Sore on ring finger
Bowlerski Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 388
A/S/L: 40+/Male/Fremont, Michigan
Any time!

Glad to help!
_________________________
Keep 'em falling...

Tom

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#10698 - 05/31/03 12:41 AM Re: Sore on ring finger
Dope Vector Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 26/M/Memphis, TN
Well, I'm a bit confused as to what might be going on now. I had bowled this past Sunday about 4 games with my girlfriend, so it was a much slower pace than I generally bowl at. I ended up catching the start of reaggrevating the sore on my finger and stopping before I opened it up again. So I figured it had to be a problem with something besides the beveling.

I went in to see my Pro Shop guy today, and he wasn't in, so I decided to bowl a few games while I was at the alley. I ended up bowling 7 games, and my finger while a little irritated did not show signs of tearing open again. It's worth noting that the past 3-4 times I've bowled I've been using magic carpet in my thumb hole, and today I wasn't using that b/c I had cut the back of my thumb and didn't want to reaggrevate that still healing wound. This probably had some effect on my release as I had gotten pretty used to the feel of the magic carpet in the ball, and I really didn't feel completely comfortable with just the tape. So I'm really a little confused as to whether or not the beveling has solved the problem, or if I was just releasing the ball differently today. I know pretty much nothing I did felt right today. I'll probably end up bowling again on Sunday before I'll have a chance to chat with my Pro Shop guy, so I guess I'll try to get a little better feel for what I'm doing then.
_________________________
-b

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#10699 - 05/31/03 11:06 AM Re: Sore on ring finger
Bowlerski Offline
High Roller

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 388
A/S/L: 40+/Male/Fremont, Michigan
Hey DV!

If the problems started when you began using the Magic Carpet, I'd say that it has somehow changed your release, and you may be squeezing with your fingers real bad. If the grips are too big you may well be putting your fingers in too deep, and in conjunction with squeezing you are coming up with the problems. You may want to get your grips replaced first as it still sounds as if they are way too big. Try that and see if that, along with a smoother grip lip your finger doesn't heal real soon. Keep us posted...
_________________________
Keep 'em falling...

Tom

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#10700 - 05/31/03 09:23 PM Re: Sore on ring finger
Dope Vector Offline
Junior Coach

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 43
A/S/L: 26/M/Memphis, TN
Hey Tom,
Well, the magic carpet has given me the most comfortable thumb fit I've had since I got the new ball. My thumb seems to change size quite a bit when I bowl, and constantly changing tape ends up making me fairly unconfident in my fit and completely disturbs any rhythm I might have. The magic carpet seems to either keep my thumb from swelling or provide a somewhat adjustable fit. At least, since I've been using it I haven't felt like I needed to adjust anything. I don't doubt that has changed my release somewhat, but I don't feel like I'm gripping the ball. I know I ended up dropping the ball with some nice thuds when I had to adjust the tape in it the last time I bowled and ended up getting it too loose. I think/hope that's an indication that I'm not gripping too firmly, although, I'm no coach or expert.

I have noticed that when I'm putting my fingers in I end up changing their position in the finger holes until they feel comfortable. Is that something that I should be able to do, or should they basically just fit one way?

Anyway, I'll be bowling probably tomorrow, and hopefully, I'll be able to try using the magic carpet again to see if this seems to make a difference with my finger. It'll be Monday before my Pro Shop guy is back in, so I'll have to wait until then to get anything done with my grips.

As always, thanks for you time in responding to my posts Tom.
_________________________
-b

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